662
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
|
on: April 23, 2014, 09:47:43 PM
|
Chinese Slumber Method prediction for Thursday April 24Prediction valid for: Thursday 2014-04-24, 19:00--19:59 UTC (not before, not after) Huobi's predicted price: 3059 CNY Bitstamp's predicted price: 487 USD [ Plot legend ] Today's data point was rather good, (S = 0.0039 W = 0.742), and not too much below the previous trend line (by 54 CNY). It seems still valid to use a straight-line trend, fitted by weighted least squares to the last five points, Apr/19--23. Namely, A + B*(d-d0), where d-d0 is the number of days since Apr/19, A = 3151.11 and B = -18.42. The Bitstamp prediction, as usual, is the Huobi prediction divided by the currency conversion factor R, which was assumed to be 6.28 CNY/USD. It was 6.28, 6.34, 6.27, 6.25, 6.26 at the last four Slumber Times. Checking the previous predictionPrediction was posted on: Tuesday 2014-04-22, 22:35 UTC Prediction was valid for: Wednesday 2014-04-23, 19:00--19:59 UTC (~20 hours later) Huobi's predicted price: 3112 CNY Huobi's actual price (L+H)/2: 3058 CNY Error: 54 CNY (~9 USD) Bitstamp's predicted price: 494 USD Bitstamp's actual price (L+H)/2: 487 USD Error: 7 USD NOTE: "Why should someone who knows something conceal it?" -- Sumerian "proverb", from an Assyrian school exercise collection
|
|
|
663
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: ~But Where ..?~
|
on: April 23, 2014, 08:41:19 PM
|
Is there more chinese deadlines in the air or is all the planned/rumored stuff behind us yet..?
For deposits, not really; although if the government did not like the bank-transfer channels, they may not like also any workaround that the exchanges may use to get the same effect (such as Huobi's recharge cards). But there are no news at present. For withdrawals, the Caixin article that first leaked the PBoC circular (discounting the earlier leak, denied on the same day by the PBoC) gave April 15 at the deadline to close all ties, after a period when only deposits would be blocked. Obviously the implementation of the circular has been happening more slowly than claimed in that article; but, apart from that, the article has been confirmed so far. Thus there is still room for more bad news. In early may, australian banks are supposed to shut off some bitcoin-related businesses' accounts.
The news I saw were about ONE Australian bank (a government-owned one perhaps?) that decided on its own to close an exchange's account as of May 1. Are there other similar decisions?
|
|
|
664
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: RE : Wall Observer
|
on: April 23, 2014, 02:23:23 PM
|
Only if they hold BTC, if they convert straight to fiat as most do then it actaully creates downward pressure on the market.
No, even if they immediately exchange for another currency, it still creates a demand when people use BTC. While that BTC is in the air, it can't be used for anything else. The number of BTC-days consumed in the transaction is a reduction in money supply. I don't follow... The demand would go up very little if people were buying BTC for the purpose of spending them right away. Each transaction of this type would decrease the circulating bitcoin supply (CBS) for a short time but that would be reveresed when the merchant or payment processor converts the BTC back to fiat. Therefore, the persistent decrease of the CBS from these uses would be proportional to the (total daily BTC volume V1 in these transactions) x (time T that each of those BTC stays off the system). As long as transaction volume remains constant, this term will not change the CBS. However, some of the bitcoin purchases are being made by people who were hoarding BTC and started spending some of them. Assuming the coins are converted to fiat by selling on market, each of those transactions increases the CBS permanently by the amount transacted. So these transactions keep increasing the CBS as time passes. I would guess that most of BitPay's 100 M$/year volume in 2013 is due to the second type of transaction, because buying bitcoins just for e-payment does not seem to be sufficiently attractive to people who do not own bitcoins already. If we assume a 50-50 split, and off-market time T of 3 days then perhaps 0.5 M$ worth of bitcoins were taken out of the CBS temporarily by type 1 transactions, and 50 M$ worth of coins were permanently added to the CBS by type 2 transactions last year through BitPay. EDIT: clarified "last year" EDIT2: Clarified "through BitPay". The same analysis should apply for commercial payments that do not use BitPay. Is there an estimate of this volume?
|
|
|
665
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
|
on: April 23, 2014, 01:25:28 PM
|
'when banks were closed' - does this imply the banking ban has worked, nobody can get money in, and whats left sloshiing around is money already on the exchange?
The ban has worked and these 3rd party charge cards were the loophole for a while... does this new low volume mean that's been chopped too?
I don't know much, I can only guess. Deposits via the exchange's bank account appear to have been closed in all exchanges. Huobi's recharge cards were available for a long time before the latest tightening and probably have limits on amount per day and such. OKCoin's broker/recharge-code system seems to be cumbersome, like BTC-China's voucher system that apparently was never popular. So, obviously, moving money into the exchanges has become more difficult now. On the other hand, withdrawing money via bank transfers seems to be unaffected, so moving money out is as easy as before. My explanation for the general decline since February is that the Chinese speculators are gradually cashing out and leaving, and no new investors are coming in. (Why would anyone be tempted to invest in an item that he cannot use for anything but speculation, and whose price has been generally falling for almost 5 months?)
|
|
|
666
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
|
on: April 23, 2014, 01:02:22 PM
|
Daily volume V at Huobi seems rather low. It is already 08:00 pm in China and V is still less than 18 kBTC. At this rate, by the time they go to bed it will be less than 30 kBTC.
The last times it was lower than that were
Sun Mar/23 (18 kBTC) ,when they were DDOSed and stayed offline for 3-4 hours in the mid-afternoon, IIRC;
Sun Mar/16 (27 kBTC), don't recall is anything special happened;
The New Year Week Jan/29-Feb/06 (< 18 kBTC), when banks were closed.
|
|
|
667
|
Economy / Securities / Re: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)
|
on: April 23, 2014, 06:54:51 AM
|
Ukyo's a gubmint plant too.
Danny = British gubmint. Ukyo = US gubmint. Mark = French gubmint.
Then, presumably,' Bobby Lee = Chinese gubmint Those alexeys of BTC-e = Russian gubmint Mircea Popescu = Romanian gubmint The guy of Bitstamp = Slovenian gubmint Antonopoulos = Greek gubmint Tuur Demeester = Dutch gubmint And so on. Geez, the whole United Nations are out to kill Bitcoin! ...
|
|
|
668
|
Economy / Securities / Re: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)
|
on: April 23, 2014, 06:48:50 AM
|
him being a plant from the banking industry or Government is possible.
The UK government could stamp out bitcoin much more easily by declaring it private money hence illegal. (I am assuming; every government which is minimally awake should rigorously forbid privately issued currencies.) And him being a scammer is also possible. Him being a very bad CEO and a terrible day trader who gambled away all the company funds is my 'most likely' scenario.
That is why it would be interesting to know Danny's history in Britain before going to Cyprus. Hard to believe that no one in Cyprus bothered to ask, and no reporter in England cared to find out...
|
|
|
672
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
|
on: April 22, 2014, 10:35:36 PM
|
Chinese Slumber Method prediction for Wednesday April 23Prediction valid for: Wednesday 2014-04-23, 19:00--19:59 UTC (not before, not after) Huobi's predicted price: 3112 CNY Bitstamp's predicted price: 494 USD [ Plot legend ] Today's data point was very good, (S = 0.0016 W = 0.949) and only 29 CNY above the previous trend line. Therefore it seems appropriate to use again a straight-line trend, fitted by weighted least squares to the last four points. Namely, A + B*(d-d0), where d-d0 is the number of days since Apr/19, A = 3128.64 and B = -4.27. The Bitstamp prediction, as usual, is the Huobi prediction divided by the currency conversion factor R, which was assumed to be 6.30 CNY/USD. It was 6.34, 6.27, 6.25, 6.26 at the last four Slumber Times. Checking the previous predictionPrediction was posted on: Monday 2014-04-21, 23:29 UTC Prediction was valid for: Tuesday 2014-04-22, 19:00--19:59 UTC (~20 hours later) Not bad, but admittedly it was not a hard guess: Huobi's predicted price: 3091 CNY Huobi's actual price (L+H)/2: 3120 CNY Error: 29 CNY (~5 USD) Bitstamp's predicted price: 494 USD Bitstamp's actual price (L+H)/2: 492 USD Error: 2 USD NOTE: "We encourage you NOT to read the posts of anyone with whom you know you will disagree." (Mindspring.net's canned reply to spam complaints, maybe around 1990.)
|
|
|
673
|
Economy / Economics / Re: Risk of the police misidentifying the owner of an address
|
on: April 22, 2014, 09:37:15 PM
|
You demonstrated how Bandit X could easily link "dirty" BTC to Person Y. But then Bandit X could create similar links to Person A, B, C, …. too. Successful bandits are incentivized to add as much confusion as possible so that the apparent links lose there meaning and they can more easily spend their loot.
You seem to be assuming that the "bandits" will act in the smartest way possible, and that the police will assume that they do so. To my knowledge, neither is true: bandits often make mistakes, and the police depends a lot on them doing so But we'll have to wait and see, I guess... But this is also in the best interest of the community. If the financial links lose their meaning, it becomes more efficient for police to stop crime by "stopping the crime in the first place." If it is more efficient to stop crime in the first place, this is where I expect police will direct their efforts. If this is where they direct their efforts, the community likely wins both by having less crime, and by having less fear of being hassled for non-crimes.
Discouraging crime depends on the police being reasonably efficient at catching criminals after the fact, more than catching them when they attempt to commit the crime. If murderers, thieves, rapists could only be caught on the act, they would only have to commit their crimes when the police is not around. I don't see how one could stop the continuing epidemics of goxitis -- "hackers stole all your bitcoins, sorry" -- and other forms of bitcoin theft except by tracking the stolen coins and identifying the thieves. Are you saying that this will not be possible, and should not be?
|
|
|
675
|
Economy / Economics / Re: Risk of the police misidentifying the owner of an address
|
on: April 22, 2014, 07:41:56 PM
|
I don't see any difference legally between these "dirty" BTC deposited at a Bitcoin address and dirty USD deposited at a bank.
Indeed they are the same thing, the problem is that it seems much easier to tie an innocent person to a "dirty" bitcoin address than to a "dirty" bank account. EDIT: Note that, in the original scenario, address A1 is created and controlled by X, not by Y. So it is not the same thing as depositing dirty money into someone else's legitimate bank account (or dirty coins into someone else's legitimate address). The crucial difference is that X can take out the bulk of the dirty money from that account.
|
|
|
676
|
Economy / Economics / Risk of the police misidentifying the owner of an address
|
on: April 22, 2014, 07:27:52 PM
|
I wonder if the anonimity of bitcoin addresses could create risks of misidentification of address owners by the police, even for people who have never used bitcoins.
Suppose that a "bandit" X generates a new address A1, deposits a pile of "dirty" bitcoins in it.
X then makes some small purchase from a retailer Z, pretending to be some other person Y who has nothing to do with the matter. He provides Y's physical address for delivery (if the purchase is a physical item) and pays in bitcoins out of address A1 to the retailer's address A2. Then X moves the rest of the dirty coins from A1 to a tumbler, or whatever.
While following the trail of the "dirty" bitcoins, the police gets to address A1, notices the small transaction to address A2, that they recognize as belonging to retailer Z. From the retailer's record of the purchase, they identify Y and conclude that he must be the owner of address A1 and hence of the "dirty" coins.
For bandit X, the purpose of this this ruse would be to delay the police's pursuit, or even permanently derail it. He could choose the innocent decoy Y so that the suspicion would seem plausible -- eg. someone not very computer-savy and with criminal background, large debts, drug addiction, etc.
Many variants of this trick seem possible. Bandit X could do the same with dozens of decoys, to get the police bogged down into checking dozens of false leads.
Is this risk significant? If so, how could it be reduced?
Criminals already use this trick with bank accounts. However, the risk for bandit X is very high in the bank version, because he must steal Y's identity and impersonate him when creating the bank account A1. On the other hand, the police usually can figure out very quickly that Y did not create that account nor issue the payment and transfer orders. (Here in Brazil, the innocent victim Y is called "an orange" in fraud jargon, and he is usually some poor semi-literate guy who does not even have a bank account and lives far from the branch where the account is opened.)
With bitcoin addresses, however, the risk for X is very small, since he does not have to get Y's documents nor interact with anyone else to pull the trick, other than issue the bitcoin transaction requests and the bogus purchase order in Y's name; while Y can be any person in the world, and he has no way of proving to the police that he is not the owner of address A1 and did not make the fatal purchase. His only hope is that the police can trace the path of the purchase order and/or the bitcoin transaction requests on the internet, and determine that they could not have been issued from any computer that Y could have accessed.
|
|
|
678
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
|
on: April 22, 2014, 03:23:26 PM
|
PS. However, Huobi's "recharge cards" apparently can be recharged by bank transfer, so in practice the bank transfer channel is still open but indirectly.
Which will almost certainly result in another crackdown. Maybe... It depends on what is the aim of the December decree. Methinks that PBoC is satisfied with the current situation (bitcoin not used for commerce or by financial institutions), but law enforcement and national security agencies may still see risks in it.
|
|
|
679
|
Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
|
on: April 22, 2014, 03:18:17 PM
|
PS. However, Huobi's "recharge cards" apparently can be recharged by bank transfer, so in practice the bank transfer channel is still open but indirectly.
How do these work, Jorge? Are they traded between individuals only? Seems like a game of cat and mouse between the exchanges and the PBOC until it becomes like a Localbitcoins affair but for recharge cards. Huobi's recharge cards are called "火币点卡充值" in their Chinese homepage (火币="Huobi" 点卡充值="TOPUP" via Google Translate) and "CCYOU" in their English homepage. I am largely guessing, but they seem to be like debit cards issued by some card company, that can be recharged by sending money to the card company and can be spent only(?) at Huobi. The OKCoin "recharge code" system seems to depend on one or more OKCoin users with lots of CNY in their OKCoin accounts ("brokers"). As far as I understand, a normal client pays a broker somehow, without involving OKCoin or their bank account, and the broker gives the client a code that he uses to transfer CNY from the broker's OKCoin account to his own. (In their forum, one client complained that the only broker has a 10,000 CNY minimum so how could one do small occasional trading?) This system may be usable also by clients outside China who, say, pay the broker in dollars on an US account. I note that a substantial part of OKCoin's volume goes on 24/7, unlike Huobi's that stops at night.
|
|
|
|