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661  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 02:18:16 PM
Huobi was just excuse for pump, Chinese could buy LTC all the time before it was added to Huobi.
a classic buy the rumor sell the news type deal.
Catalog example Cheesy
Dump happened like half an hour before LTC going live on Huobi, lol
Well, the situation may not be so simple. LTC trading on Huobi may have made a difference if the fees and other facilities are different from those of other exchanges, or if they have lazy/loyal customers who would trade LTC but not on a different exchange.

I understood (through Google translate) that Huobi had some special one-time offer to encourage LTC trading. Does anyone know for sure?

(The bitcoin press, like Coindesk, should have thoroughly analyzed those details beforehand for their readers.  But they barely acknowledge that China exists...)
662  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 01:20:58 PM
Another freak transaction on Huobi: a small trade at 3799 CNY at 13:08:11 UTC, at a time when the spread was around 3729.  A bug? An internal manual fix?
663  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 01:05:03 PM
I hope BRICS ( Brasil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) countries will say bye bye to USD as second fiat and take BTC
What you mean by "second fiat"?

In countries with very high inflation (and I mean VERY high - much more than 10%/year) the USD may be commonly used in commerce instead of the national currency.  I gather that such is the case of Venezuela now, maybe of Argentina at times.

Brazil had very high inflation in the 1980s but even then the USD was not commonly used. Since the early 1990s the currency is fairly stable, and people do not use USD, or think prices in USD, except when importing items.

Russia and China, and perhaps also India, have banned crypto-currencies from commerce. I do not see them reversing their position anytime soon.
664  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 07:17:54 AM
Huobi is undergoing a micro-crash. Trading suddenly and almost completely stopped for 4-5 minutes just before that, and it still seems to be hiccupping. DDOS? Overload?
665  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 06:22:38 AM
It is 14:00 in China, so Huobi must have started trading LTC.  Their BTC price dropped a little,  volume seems to have doubled, but all within the usual volatility...
666  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 06:05:28 AM
Bitfinex is based in Hong Kong, but it apparently deals with USD rather than CNY.  Is this correct?  Is it reasonable to consider it a "non-Chinese" exchange?
The real distinction isn't between Chinese and non-Chinese; it's between on-shore RMB and the free market. So, yes.

Thanks!
667  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 06:05:10 AM
Daily volumes of BTC trade to/from USD and other national currencies (in kBTC):

             !    Tue !    Wed !    Thu !    Fri !    Sat !   Sun !    Mon !    Tue !                     
  EXCHANGE   !  03/11 !  03/12 !  03/13 !  03/14 !  03/15 ! 03/16 !  03/17 !  03/18 ! Currencies considered

  Bitstamp   |   9.17 |  12.70 |   6.73 |   8.68 |   2.20 |  3.30 |   9.17 |  14.90 | USD                 
  BTC-e      |   5.09 |   7.96 |   7.43 |   3.76 |   2.55 |  2.62 |   3.90 |   7.91 | USD,EUR,RUR         
  BitFinEx   |   3.63 |   7.29 |   3.31 |   5.53 |   1.74 |  1.90 |   3.76 |   7.74 | USD                 
  Kraken     |   0.45 |   0.56 |   0.40 |   0.48 |   0.34 |  0.15 |   0.48 |   0.85 | EUR                 
  Bitcoin.DE |   0.41 |   0.37 |   0.35 |   0.20 |   0.12 |  0.12 |   0.40 |   0.42 | EUR                 
  CampBX     |   0.06 |   0.04 |   0.03 |   0.06 |   0.03 |  0.02 |   0.07 |   0.32 | USD                 
  CaVirtEx   |   0.18 |   0.13 |   0.13 |   0.11 |   0.06 |  0.06 |   0.10 |   0.10 | CAD                 

  SUBTOTAL   |  18.99 |  29.05 |  18.38 |  18.82 |   7.04 |  8.17 |  17.88 |  32.24 |                     

  Huobi      |  55.00 |  77.90 |  65.40 |  78.40 |  36.50 | 27.00 |  63.80 |  84.10 | CNY                 
  OKCoin     |  68.50 |  90.60 |  60.70 |  97.80 |  55.40 | 40.00 |  59.00 |  82.70 | CNY                 
  BTC-China  |   3.11 |   3.16 |   2.89 |   2.97 |   1.13 |  1.51 |   2.74 |   3.70 | CNY                 
  Bter       |   0.34 |   0.49 |   0.26 |   0.19 |   0.35 |  0.28 |   0.34 |   0.27 | CNY                 

  SUBTOTAL   | 126.95 | 172.15 | 129.25 | 179.36 |  93.38 | 68.79 | 125.88 | 170.77 |                     

  TOTAL      | 145.94 | 201.20 | 147.63 | 198.18 | 100.42 | 76.96 | 143.76 | 203.01 |                     

All numbers were collected by hand from the site http://bitcoinwisdom.com. Beware of possible errors.

For each exchange, the numbers include only the trade volume to/from the currencies listed in the rightmost column. Trade between BTC and other cryptocoins, such as LiteCoin, is NOT included.

Dates on the header line are UTC. Specifically, "01/15" means "from 01/15 00:00:00 UTC to 01/15 23:59:59 UTC". (Beware that the same period may span part of day 01/14 or part of day 01/16 in your local time zone.)

NOTE: There are at least five additional large exchanges in China that are not on this table because they are not covered by Bitcoinwisdom: FxBTC, ChBTC, BTCTrade, BTC100, and BTC38.  Together they may have as much volume as Huobi or OKCoin.
668  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 05:54:37 AM
Bitfinex is based in Hong Kong, but it apparently deals with USD rather than CNY.  Is this correct?  Is it reasonable to consider it a "non-Chinese" exchange?
669  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 05:28:05 AM
Chinese Dinosaur Slumber Method prediction for Wednesday Mar/19

(It already looks like this prediction will be wrong by a mile, but anyway...)

Prediction valid for: Wednesday 2014-03-19, 19:00--19:59 UTC (not before, not after)
Huobi's predicted price: 3699 CNY.
Bitstamp's predicted price: 610 USD.


The red and green strokes are actual Huobi hourly prices.  The magenta square at right is the above prediction.  The blue square next to it is the last prediction (see below). The light blue-gray squares are the older predictions.   The blue dots are the Slumber Points, the mean Huobi prices ((L+H)/2) in the interval 19:00--19:59 UTC every day. The size of the Albertosaurus under each dot indicates the night-time activity at Huobi. Specifically, the area of the reptile is proportional S = Vh/Vd, where Vh is the mean hourly volume in the three hour period 18:00--20:59 UTC (02:00am--04:59am China time), and Vd is the daily volume 00:00--23:59 UTC on the same date.  The largest Albertosauri correspond to the S = 0.010 or greater.   The size of each blue dot is proportional to its reliability weight, computed from the ratio S.  The grey lines are trends fitted a posteriori to the Slumber Points. The orange line is the trend assumed for the above prediction.

The trend used is a shifted exponential A + B*Q**(d-d0) where d is the day of the month, d0 = 16, A = 3681.68, B = 160.32, Q = 0.476.

The Bitstamp prediction, as usual, is the Huobi prediction divided by the currency conversion factor R, which these days seems to be around 6.06 CNY/USD.

Checking the previous prediction

Prediction was posted on: Tuesday 2014-03-17, 06:05 UTC
Prediction was valid for: Tuesday 2014-03-17, 19:00--19:59 UTC (~13 hours later)

Huobi's predicted price: 3674 CNY.
Huobi's actual price (L+H)/2: 3718 CNY
Error: 44 CNY (~7 USD)

Bitstamp's predicted price: 606 USD.
Bitstamp's actual price (L+H)/2: 614 USD
Error: 8 USD

NOTE 1: Read Note 2.

NOTE 2: Ignore Note 1.

NOTE 3: Aren't you glad that Note 2 did not tell you to re-read Note 1?

670  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 12:13:35 AM
Ok, since the UTC idea is already taken, my plan now is to convince Dogecoin, Bitcoin and Litecoin to merge their blockhains to create the DogBiteCoin.   Grin
671  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 19, 2014, 12:02:51 AM
The problem with Huobi giving a fixed date, is that all the Huobi traders probably moved BTCs to other exchanges in order to buy LTCs ahead of the release.
I wouldn't except the price to skyrocket much more than that. Then of course Huobi must have it's share of slow brained people who might start buying only tomorrow.
According to the table posted by @manfred earlier today, Huobi is the only Chinese exchange that does NOT offer LTC.

Thus the impact of Huobi starting to trade LTC is uncertain.  It seems to have caused the recent drop, but why? (Is there any other explanation for the drop?)

Perhaps it has affected and will affect only the traders that would like to trade LTC, but are too lazy, or too fond of Huobi, to use some other exchange.  There may be enough of them to make a difference.

Perhaps trading LTC on Huobi has special advantages.  How are the fees on other exchanges?

According to Google Translate, item 2 on Huobi's LTC info page seemed to say that there will be some bonus for Huobi customers who will start trading LTC (IIRC; I am unable to get the page now, server overloaded?).

EDIT: got the page.  That, and item 1 says there will be an LTC lottery too.
672  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 07:09:19 PM
I just thought of creating my own coin called UlimateCoin or UltraCoin or UtmostCoin or etc..

Then sit back and enjoy watching the general confusion whenever people use the acronym "UTC".  Grin

You´re too late:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=413978.0

DARN!  Angry
673  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 06:41:45 PM
I just thought of creating my own coin called UlimateCoin or UltraCoin or UtmostCoin or etc..

Then sit back and enjoy watching the general confusion whenever people use the acronym "UTC".  Grin
674  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: BitcoinWisdom.com - Live Bitcoin/LiteCoin Charts on: March 18, 2014, 06:34:21 PM
I thought that you may be interested in this table:

Chinese, Hong Kong Exchanges Volume past 24h. Huobi going live with Litecoin trading in the next few hours.
  BTC LTC
Huobi  83156 0
OKCoin  80112 9970589
FxBTC  21969 102216
ChBTC  27099 2215
BTCTrade  20920 61216
BTC100  8158 15491
Bitfinex 6860 13423
BTCChina 3375 93935
BTC38  791 42619
  ---------- ---------- 
Total 24h 252,440 10,301,704
Price  606 19
$US  152,978,640   192,915,740
BTC-e  5785 429222
Bitstamp  16264 0
675  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 06:20:07 PM
So as I mentioned, I'm thinking of dropping a volatility index in with ChartBuddy's posts. It's fairly simple so far, it is the base 10 log off the percentage of high-low against closing price ( log(100*(high-low)/price ). This would only be once per day at 3pm (when the NY market closes). Here is a sample with a few arbitrary currencies (price, high, low, index). Prices are from Bitstamp. Thoughts?

Code:
GBPUSD 1.6573 1.6648 1.6547 -0.215079756574918
EURUSD 1.3915 1.3943 1.3880 -0.344142661216467
JPYUSD 0.0099 0.0099 0.0098 0.00436480540245543
UAHUSD 0.1024 0.1041 0.1024 0.22014896473846
BTCUSD 612.72 612.72 591.13 0.546990585818375

Sounds good, but why put the closing price in the formula? You could use  the  geometric mean of L and H
instead, namely m = sqrt(H*L).  Then your indicator would be
   d = log10(H/m) = log10(m/L) = (log10(H)-log10(L))/2 = log10(sqrt(H/L))
That is simply the half-width of the [L,H] interval in log scale. 

To make the number easier to understand you could convert it back from log scale to linear,
namely use D = 100(10^d - 1) = 100(exp(ln(10)*d) - 1).
That is simply he percentual increase of H relative to m (or of m relative to L).

In any case, it would be very interesting to plot your indicator as a function of the time span considered to compute H and L (hour, day, month, year).  The shape of that plot should be related to the fractal dimension of the price plot.
676  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 04:51:56 PM
It is already March 19 in China, but maybe LTC trading will start only at 14:00 CST (March 19 06:00 UTC).  That is what I could barely decipher from Google Translate's  output:

https://www.huobi.com/topic/index.php?a=ltcshangxian

"lái tè" 莱特 I suppose is a phonetic imitation of "Lite" (and also of the name "Wright"); Litecoin would be "lái tè bì" 莱特币 then, as in "Huǒ bì" 火币 = "Hot coin" or "Fiery coin"
677  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 04:33:53 PM
What that "100% backed in BTC" promise means is that, for each share held by investors, BIT will keep 0.1 BTC in its posession.  It does not mean that BIT must sell those BTC when the investor liquidates; if BIT has cash reserves, it can just pay the investor from those and keep the corresponding BTCs as reserve instead. That would not violate the "100% backed by BTC" promise to other investors, on the contrary.

(The whole point of the trust is to insulate the investors from the BTC trading that BIT must do to honor BIT's part of the contract.)

I don't think so, because they do not have other source of USD. All USD from investors (with fee deducted) were spent on buying real BTC. Therefore, they have to sell the BTC if investors request for USD simply because they shouldn't have extra USD to pay
Perhaps.  The fund seems to be rather opaque at this point.

Quote
Even if they have surplus in USD, paying out USD without selling BTC is equivalent to BIT itself investing in BTC. If they really want to do so, they can buy BTC from the open market at any time.

My point was that they could lower the BTC market price temporarily so as to reduce the money they must pay to the liquidating investors.  Then they lift the market price again and only THEN sell the coins corresponding to the liquidated shares (slowly, or off-market), thus making a nice profit.  This could work only because their BTC holdings are large compared to the market's  liquidity (I think).

I believe that BIT has the means and stated intention of being flexible in their trading of bitcoins.  If they have some extra BTC reserve, they can accept a new investment immediately, backing it with their reserve, and later replenish the reserve at the best price they can.  Similarly for liquidation.
678  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 04:02:40 PM
i thought BIT would open up a market for BIT shares, were people could buy and sell BIT, which should track bitcoin prices closely because its backed by bitcoin.
No, on their site they explicitly warn prospective investors that such a market for BIT shares is not in their plans, and none may develop. 

I understand that "liquidity" for an investment fund means just what I described, the investor can take money out from the fund (at the current share price) and give up his shares.  Am I wrong?
679  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 03:54:33 PM
That's completely nonsense. BIT is 100% backed by real BTC. If a customer wants to liquidate their BIT share, BIT will just sell the bitcoin at market price.

That has nothing to do with the issue.

What that "100% backed in BTC" promise means is that, for each share held by investors, BIT will keep 0.1 BTC in its posession.  It does not mean that BIT must sell those BTC when the investor liquidates; if BIT has cash reserves, it can just pay the investor from those and keep the corresponding BTCs as reserve instead. That would not violate the "100% backed by BTC" promise to other investors, on the contrary.

(The whole point of the trust is to insulate the investors from the BTC trading that BIT must do to honor BIT's part of the contract.)
680  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: March 18, 2014, 03:22:50 PM
If I recall correctly, Overstock's CEO invested heavily in bitcoin,  Was that from his pocket, or through the company?
I struggle to comprehend - why you want to stretch logic to attempt to see a zebra in a herd of horses.... and zebras are a rarity. 

I don't undertsand your remark. I stated a fact (AFAIK, read it here) and asked a factual question. No opinions there.

By the way, zebras are notorious for being impossible to tame. You can't take them for a ride.  Grin
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