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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: June 01, 2014, 06:38:37 PM
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Do you guys still believe this Willy word press bullshit had any significance? Pls.
I think that the buys by Markus/Willy were indeed responsible for most of the rise at MtGOX. But my understanding is that they were merely doing arbitrage with China where the bubbles really happened, due to huge new demand. It is possible that the Markus/Willy operators were buying the coins from MtGOX clients with non-existent dollars, as the report claims. If they were doing arbitrage, they must have been selling those coins in China, expecting to get the money from there later somehow. The December PBoC decree may have thrown a wrench into those plans. Or not. We probably will never know, since Sunlot (who were sought by Mark as possible buyers, before closing) apparently made some deal with a couple of big clients who were suing MtGOX in the US, and may possibly take over from the bankruptcy court in Japan. If that happens, there is no reason to expect that they will do a real audit or criminal investigation, that the former management will be punished (or even excluded from the distribution of the remaining 220'000 BTC), or that we will know what happened to the missing coins. And nobody seems to care.
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63
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: June 01, 2014, 06:26:00 AM
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I can't imagine how average Joes [in China] are still brave enough to flow in with pboc's gun on the back?
I don't think that average Joe clients are under any pressure or threat. At most they may have their bank accounts closed if they manage to use them to trade bitcoins. If there will be penalties, they should fall only on card processors, exchanges, brokers etc..
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64
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: June 01, 2014, 06:12:06 AM
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I do wish I knew why people still have funds there and why their behaviour has recently changed.
Another totally speculative theory (was it @walsoraj's?) is that Huobi's bank account that currently allows withdrawals is about to be closed with little or no advance warning. Then common folk who find their yuan trapped there will have to buy bitcoins from other Huobi clients and move them to another exchange that still allows yuan withdrawals. That should drive the price up at Huobi a lot, since only privileged Huobi traders with alternative withdrawal channels would want to sell coins. The current rally would then be those privileged Huobi traders acting on inside info, namely buying coins now in expectation of selling them at even higher prices at Huobi. (Arbitrage should stop then, so the price may not rise on other exchanges.)
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65
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: June 01, 2014, 05:50:58 AM
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Some people are worried about China, but China has led a long time during this past winter. Sure it will probably end in disaster, but it can last a while, and a higher price at China will make it more difficult for Bitstamp et al. to decline.
I do wish I knew why people still have funds there and why their behaviour has recently changed.
There are still ways to get money into the exchanges, at worst they are inconvenient for common folk. As for why the sudden interest in bitcoin: no information, only guesses. Perhaps Huobi is just about to open an offshore exchange, trading CNH ("offshore yuan") instead of CNY ("domestic yuan"). People with money in the exchanges who know that and are interested in trading CNH are buying the coins to move them over there. Perhaps. The Dish news was carried by the e-media in China; but that seems too little, too late to explain the rally. Could be that Facebook app?
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67
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: May 31, 2014, 10:08:07 PM
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Maybe the seller @622 is Second Market? [ ... ] Maybe that was just a buy for one client who knows almost nothing about Bitcoin but was looking for new assets to invest in. The client is happy with his 55% rate and just want to sell his bitcoins at this price and SecondMarket does not want to take the risk [ ... ]
Could be, but SMBIT probably has a reserve of BTC that they "sell" to themseves at the current market price when a new client comes in, and that they replenish later at their convenience, looking for the lowest price of couse. The started with ~17'000 BTC before they had any clients.
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70
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Economy / Service Announcements / Re: BitcoinWisdom.com - Live Bitcoin/LiteCoin Charts
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on: May 31, 2014, 07:28:23 AM
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Too bad, it seems no one enjoy the change on the font. That is normal. Well before the internet, whenever a magazine or newspaper changed the font, they would get tons of hate mail from faithful readers. Suddenly it did not feel like "home" any more. I personally find the new font a bit more legible (easier to tell 3 from 5 from 8 ) but it looks a bit too small for my old eyes. I can magnify the page with CTRL+ but then the chart gets enlarged too. Perhaps a "small/med/large" font size setting?
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71
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: May 30, 2014, 10:55:27 PM
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I wonder how much of the rocket is a result of XRP holders switching to Bitcoin.
The rise from the "Dead Sea Valley" (Apr/4--May/19, Huobi at ~2750) seems to have happened in a few isolated buying episodes. Between them the price seems to have wandered either at random or with momentum gained in those spurts. I can see five such events (1)--(5) on Huobi: ! Start Date+Time ! Length ! Rise ! Amount ! Num ! (UTC) ! (hrs) ! (CNY) ! (kBTC) ! Obs ----+-----------------+--------+-------+--------+---------------------- (1) | May/20 02:00 | 2 | 50 | 10 | (2) | " 14:00 | 3 | 170 | 18 | | May/21 | | | | slow rise then flat (3) | May/22 05:00 | 3 | 90 | 21 | | May/23 | | | | ramp | May/24 | | | | slow dip and recovery (4) | May/25 04:00 | 3 | 250 | 25 | | May/26 | | | | slow rise | May/27 | | | | dip and recovery | May/28 | | | | random drift | May/29 | | | | random drift (5) | May/30 09:00 | 4 | 220 | 25 |
To get China local time, add 8 hours to UTC. The numbers in the "Amount" column are not very meaningful, though: they are just the total Huobi trade volume in those time intervals. They are almost certainly over-estimates since they must include lots of coins sold at Huobi by arbitragers, as well as coins bought and sold multiple times during the rise. The presence of arbitrage also means that one cannot add the amounts from different exchanges. This pattern of isolated spurts does not seem to be caused by a broad rise of optimism in the market (except for the optimism induced by the spurts themselves). Perhaps one or two of the spurts were sudden decisions by rich individual traders, for random motives. (A suitcase of cash being successfully delivered to a Chinese exchange, perhaps? A client tryng to escape through the BTC door from Bitstamp's more demanding KYC procedures?) Or perhaps each spurt is a trader of group of traders obtaining some insider information (such as the imminent opening of the offshore versions of Huobi and OKCoin, trading CNH insteadof CNY?)
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72
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: May 30, 2014, 04:06:20 AM
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My preferences are not important. The point is that a system that does not allow the forcible return of stolen property will not be acceptable to society, except for thieves and other criminals. In the end, it will be rejected even by the libertarians who now think that irreversibility is a good thing.
Forcing the return of stolen bitcoin is no more or less difficult than forcing the return of any other stolen good. Why would you think otherwise? The only reason I can see why you would think otherwise is that you are identifying banks as the only actors worthy of recognition. Sigh. Dear @aminorex and others, please note that my opinion is not important for this issue. Neither is your opinion, or that of anyone in this thread. What matters is the opinion of the other 7 billion people on Earth, and especially of some of them: "Dear Government of the United States of America,
We respectfully ask Your permission to market a Bitcoin-based ETF to Your esteemed Citizens through exchanges operating under Your jurisdiction. We also respectfully request that You enact just the right level of regulation of the Bitcoin economy to enhance public confidence without hampering the viability of this and other Bitcoin-based ventures in Your territory.
Your cooperation in these matters will be essential for the widespread adoption of Bitcoin, which, as You know, was ingeniously designed with the express purpose of enabling American and foreign citizens to freely move arbitrary amounts of money across Your borders, without Your knowledge and beyond Your control; and also to safely store and transfer the financial resources of enemies of Your Country, as well as the profits from thefts or any other activity that is illicit under Your Laws (including tax evasion), committed by or against Your Citizens and Corporations, in such a way that neither your Law Enforcement Agencies, nor any international agency, will be able to block them, seize them, or return them to their rightful owners.
We are confident that You will understand the importance of our project, and hope that You will help us make our dreams come true.
Sincerely,
-- We The Bitcoiners --
Can you see now why I think that irreversibility is going to be a problem for bitcoin -- not for me? PS. As for all the others who insist on discussing ME instead of bitcoin (and post 10 replies for each post of mine, with nothing but comments about ME, and then blame ME for it): I am sorry to break your hearts folks, but I am already married.
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73
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: May 30, 2014, 03:06:33 AM
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In 115 weeks [the block reward] becomes only 14,000 BTC per week. A few years later it's 7,000 per week. I think you understand the maths here.
I confess that my math has not got there yet (sincerely). What will happen then? Will the miners start charging fees to make up for the difference? Or is the price of bitcoin expected to double at that moment? Or none of the above? Or both of the above?
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74
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: May 30, 2014, 01:58:45 AM
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SecondMarket is buying up 1000 / 28,000 = 3.6% of the new bitcoin supply on a regular basis. Without the word "not" your bolded statement above is equally valid (and equally biased): they are big buyers!
Right. Thanks to SMBIT, traders only have to worry about the destination of ~27'000 BTC per week, rather than 28'000. Seriously, there is at least another bitcoin fund similar to SMBIT (Pantera Bitcoin Partners, PBP). Does anyone know how much they have and are buying?
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75
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Economy / Service Discussion / Re: SaveGox.com
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on: May 30, 2014, 01:31:45 AM
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Thanks! >So [Mr. Gay-Bouchery] is being given immunity by Sunlot without even issuing a public statement about his role in the collapse? (He was MtGOX's CFO, is this correct?) His official title is Business Development Manager. He mainly did advertising/pr.
But when did he became aware that the company was insolvent, and what did he do then? >Thanks for the clarification. However, is the intent to exclude the former management of MtGOX from the asset distribution a mere feeling and vague intention, or is Sunlot commiting to that in writing through a legally binding contract/proposal? I don't understand the law behind it, but I'm confident that if the audit decides that the former management is at fault (how can't they be) then we can withhold their % of the coins.
This is rather, er, strange. I understand that in bankruptcy proceedings, claims by the management are invariably considered only after all other creditors have been paid, even if there is no evidence wrongdoing -- because they are "guilty" of the company's failure, at the very least. Moreover, in the case o MtGOX there clearly were many actions by the management that were unfair to the clients, such as allowing them to deposit and trade without warning them of the insolvency situation. >Again, is Sunlot commiting to [the audit] point in writing, in a legally binding document? Have any of those [auditing] firms been contacted to confirm that they would accept this task? (I am asking because a reputable auditing firm will probably refuse to do an audit of something if it thinks that there isn't sufficient reliable data to support a useful conclusion.)
From the proposal: Caveats and Pre-requisites 1. Under this plan, the Supervisor shall appoint and compensate PwC (or equivalent alternative agreed by Sunlot, if reasonable terms can not be agreed with PwC) to provide an audit of customer accounts, customer assets, and provide an accounting report on how Customer Assets were stolen (“Audit”). Sunlot and Class Counsel shall oversee the Audit and ensuing report.
I understand this to say "there is no contract with PwC; Sunlot may propose to pay 0.01$ to PwC for the audit, and if PwC does not accept, then Sunlot alone will decide who will do the audit and how it will be done, while the Class Counsel will have to sit and watch." Anyway, thanks for your answers. Their former clients can have their opinion, but as a mere inhabitant of the same planet, I must say that I am quite upset at the idea that MtGOX's management may escape impartial investigation, and even be rewarded in the end. That will only encourage them, or others in similar situations, to do the same thing again, to other victims.
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77
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Economy / Service Discussion / Re: More proof that savegox.com is a sham.
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on: May 29, 2014, 10:14:31 PM
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What exactly are you adding to this conversation except that you don't know anything or just trying to derail it? Your IGNORANCe in not KNOWING is actually quite irrelevant I cower in fear. It doesn't matter if you believe in what it is or not.......That doesn't change the fact that this is what Brock believes in and with a persons beliefs it comes quite clear where there morals stand and what kind of person they really are!
That is true... and they also may reveal the person's depth... To the average dimwhit who knows nothing about nothing!It might appear Elvish? but to someone like me ?who is advance in the craft of a level of a Master Mason and Knows what it means? it is clear as day Gee thanks... (Speaking of "reality funnier than fiction", are you acquaninted with the doings of John Dee and Edward Kelley? If not, I may try to find some links among my old files...)
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78
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: May 29, 2014, 10:02:42 PM
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i have a nagging suspicion, though, that there are many western traders on Chinese exchanges. i've seen a few people in the tradingview chat that have said they trade on huobi. i'm sure there's some around here who do as well.
I don't know how easy it is for foreigners to open an account on those exchanges. They deal only in yuan so far, and you need a Chinese bank account to withdraw yuan, if not to deposit. And then there is the language barrier.
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79
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: May 29, 2014, 09:50:31 PM
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Everyone speculates about chinese traders on this thread. Are there any chinese traders here, in the thread? There's gotta be some kind of bitcoin online community for china, no? I am interested, as everyone talks of the chinese traders like they are a completely separate and mysterious entity.
There is a Chinese language sub-forum in this forum. Surely there are many forums in China. You can find Chinese sources by Googling "比特币" ("bitcoin"), with quotes. Good luck with Google Translate. EDIT: you may want to add "5月27日" (with quotes too) to get news with date "May 27" on/in them.
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