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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 27, 2014, 01:42:29 AM
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To come back to yours, I think the error is in the first sentence: "the difference between successive values of Z(i) = log(P(i)) are independent random variables with probability distributions that are symmetric about zero" Small proof: under log brownian (with no drift) the important basic concept is that the best expectation of price in the future is the current value of the price.
OK, it seems that I was using a definition of "log Brownian" that is not the standard one used in finance. Indeed I was assuming that the increments D(i) = Z(i+1)-Z(i) = log(P(i+1)/P(i)) were normal variables with zero mean, so that Z(i) would be a Brownian variable as it is usually defined in other areas - with no trend. (Note that I am a prof of computer science, not economics!) However, as you point out, by that definition the expected price E(P(i0+n)) would grow exponentially with n; which does not make sense in the trading context, where the "efficient market hypothesis" demands E(P(i0+n)) = P(i0). (Or does it? See below.) We agree at least that in a log-Brownian model the increments D(i) = Z(i+1)-Z(i) = log(P(i+1)/P(i)) should be assumed to be independent random variables, yes? The standard way to achieve E(P(i0+n)) = P(i0), in finance, seems to be: assume that the increments D(i) are Gaussian variables with slightly negative mean, mu = -sigma^2/2. That is, one assumes a slight negative trend in the log-price Z(i) so that the broadening of the log-normal distribution of P(i0+n) as n increases preserves the mean P(i0). Is that correct? That assumption satisfies the "efficient market hypothesis", but implies (as you pointed out) that the price is slightly more likely to go down than to go up at each step. Then Prob(P(i0+n) < P(i0)) increases with with the stride n. Which seems weird too. We can get rid of this weidness by assuming a probability distribution for D(i) such that E(D(i)) = 0, E(exp(D(i))) = 1. It seems that these two conditions cannot be obtained with a Gaussian distribution, except in the limit when sigma → 0. However, they can be achieved with other distributions that are symmetric about zero , especially if they have fatter tails than the Gaussian. And, indeed, the most obvious deficiency of the log-Brownian model seems to be that, in real data, the distribution of the increments is not Gaussian. If my math is correct, the distribution of the n-step increments too would satisfy both conditions: E(Z(i0+n)) = Z(i0), and E(P(i0+n)) = P(i0). Moreover the distribution of Z(i0+n), being the convolution of n symmetric distributions, would be symmetric about Z(i0), implying that Prob(Z(i0+n) < Z(i0)) = 1/2, and hence Prob(P(i0+n) < P(i0)) = 1/2. With these assumptions, even though the distribution of P(i0+n)/P(i0) approaches a log-normal distribution as n increases (by the central limit theorem), it remains sufficiently "log-abnormal" to satisfy those conditions (which a true log-normal distribution cannot achieve, it seems). Perhaps you can tell me what would be a convenient "fat-tailed" symmetric distribution to assume for the increments D(i) that would satisfy both conditions. (Perhaps a mixture of Gaussians with zero mean whose variance has log-normal distribution? I would have a justification for that choice...) Finally, about the "efficient market hypothesis": shouldn't it say that E(P(i0 + n)) = P(i0)*Q^n, where Q > 1 is the typical ROI factor of a generic investment per time step? That is, if E(P(i0+n)) = X, then P(i0) should be less than X, otherwise other investments would be more profitable. With that modification to the "efficient market hypothesis", the distribution of D(i) must satisfy E(exp(D(i)) = Q, not 1; and one can achieve that even with a zero-mean Gaussian if desired. In that case one would have a legitimate log-Browninan model (with Gaussian increments) such that that E(Z(i0+n)) = Z(i0), E(P(i0+n)) = P(i0)*Q^n, and Prob(P(i0+n) < P(i0)) = 1/2. Does this make sense? EDIT: not sure whether the distribution must/may have fatter tails than a Gaussian. Too sleepy to think now...
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602
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 26, 2014, 10:21:07 PM
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Chinese Slumber Method prediction for Sunday April 27Prediction valid for: Sunday 2014-04-27, 19:00--19:59 UTC (not before, not after) Huobi's predicted price: 2876 CNY Bitstamp's predicted price: 471 USD [ Plot legend ] Today's data point was even weaker than yesterday's (S = 0.0076 W = 0.311), but we must use it anyway to define the new straight-line trend. Namely, A + B*(d-d0), where d-d0 is the number of days since Apr/25, A = 2814 and B = +31. The Bitstamp prediction, as usual, is the Huobi prediction divided by the currency conversion factor R, which was assumed to be 6.11 CNY/USD. It was 6.09 today and 6.05 yesterday; althhough those points had low weight, it seems best to use a value near them rather than the values observed before the crash (6.30, 6.28, 6.34, 6.27, 6.25, 6.26). Checking the previous predictionPrediction was posted on: Saturday 2014-04-26, 04:04 UTC Prediction was valid for: Saturday 2014-04-26, 19:00--19:59 UTC (~15 hours later) The Huobi's "same as yesterday" prediction was rather good: Huobi's predicted price: 2814 CNY Huobi's actual price (L+H)/2: 2845 CNY Error: 31 CNY (~5 USD) The Bitstamp prediction was way too low: Bitstamp's predicted price: 447 USD Bitstamp's actual price (L+H)/2: 467 USD Error: 20 USD That last prediction used the pre-crash value of R (6.29) instead of the post-crash one (6.05) to transfer from Huobi to Bitstamp. Had we used R = 6.05, or the "same as yesterday" estimate for Bitstamp too, the prediction would have been 465 USD, only 2 USD off. NOTE: "Be not simply good; be good for something." -- Thoreau
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604
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 26, 2014, 03:35:27 PM
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"In addition to that, federal agents are asking to keep the $3,030,000-worth of Bitcoins that the government collected from Slomp, and which have already been converted into cash."
It would be interesting to know how and when the conversion was made. (Presumably that happened after November/2013, so it would be about 3'000 -- 6'000 bitcoins.) Posters in other threads who seem to be well-informed claim that Ulrich's bitcoins will surely be sold through public auctions, which is what the government must do with seized goods. But it seems unlikely that they auctioned Stomp's coins, that would have been noted and widely reported. Perhaps the federal agents considered bitcoin a currency, not goods, at the time? Perhaps the coins had already been converted to cash by Stomp or "J" when they were arrested?
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605
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Economy / Speculation / Re: SecondMarket Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer
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on: April 26, 2014, 09:11:51 AM
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They've been buying into the 1000s haven't they? God they must be taking massive losses. Wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones with these fake walls trying to inflate the depths for quick dumps.
SecondMarket will not lose any money, no matter what the price does. When an investor gives them money for N shares, they buy N/10 bitcoins at the current market price. When the investor liquidates those N shares, they sell the N/10 bitcoins at current market price and give him that money. If the price went down in the meantime, the investor takes the loss; if it went up, he takes the profit. In any case, SecondMarket skims off the entry, maintenance, and exit fees. SecondMarket could make even more money if they had a private source that would sell them bitcoins below market price. That difference in price would be their extra profit.
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606
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Economy / Securities / Re: Neo & Bee talk (spam free thread)
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on: April 26, 2014, 08:44:08 AM
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Aren;t you the one that sent me a pm accusing me of working/owning moolah? Yes you were. Why did you do that? Because facts don;t really matter i guess, and its easier to accuse that actually research.
I did not "accuse" you, I thought you were connected to them, rather than just their customer. And I apologized immediately for the mistake. So what? Are you not the one that was accusing whoever asked for evidence, of lying, in the same post you were asking for evidence on Brewsters whereabouts? Yes, that was your hypocritical bidding. But you believed its ok for you to ask for evidence, its bad for others to do so Your "academic" interest in the speculative nature of an unregulated market is quite interesting to watch. You have not "invested" in this, but you are looking for him and his daughter, which looks like... personal issues here too. Looks like you are part of the team that layed the threats, you know, the same team the HighCourt is allegedly looking for. This is insane. What the media wrote about Neo & Bee has been confirmed beyond any reasonable doubt. You insulted me because I believed those reports, insulted me because I asked about the background of a person being sought by the police -- and now you accuse me of a crime? I am the bad guy in this story? What is happening? Why are you so obsessed about me? Is it strange for someone to be interested in knowing the details of an attempt to swindle an entire country? I must ask again, are you a relative or close friend of Danny? I can't make sense of your posts otherwise... (By the way, I am not interested on Danny's current whereabouts - that is the police's job. I never asked where is his daughter; Danny himself said he left her in Cyprus. And I am still interested in what he did before going to Cyprus.)
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607
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 26, 2014, 05:28:36 AM
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How's the future for Chinese exchanges? Anyone could give a clue? I have some difficulty to imagine. Moving offshore? It's hard for me to imagine how this can attract fresh Chinese mainland clients. Even for old clients, how this would proceed?
The Chinese are asking too, it seems. from OKCoin's blog: https://www.okcoin.com/t-1008520.html1 # Posted :2014-04-25 11:45:49 - IP:. 122.90 * *.
如果财新网的新闻是真的,OK怎么应对呀,有预案么,除了国际版,国际版不现实,充值提现成本非常高,
If Caixin news is true , OK how to deal Yeah, there are plans for it , in addition to the international version , international version unrealistic, recharge to cash costs are very high ,
So smooth
2 # Posted at :2014-04-25 12:21:38 - IP:. 114.249 * *.
您好,OKCoin目前还没有接到银行的相关通知,如果监管部门要求清算OKCoin会留出足够的时间给大家提现的,请大家放心,OKCoin一分钱都不会少的。目前OK的充值提现一切正常,感谢您对OK的支持!
Hello , OKCoin has not yet received the relevant notification bank liquidation OKCoin if the regulatory requirements will leave enough time for everyone to cash in , please rest assured , OKCoin penny not less . OK recharge current withdrawals everything works OK, thank you for your support !
OKCoin_ Muzi
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609
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 26, 2014, 04:25:24 AM
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Taking cash to their offices? That is worst case scenario for the Chinese exchanges.They certainly won't make manual trades on a large scale.
That will not save the exchanges, but it may allow arbitrage to continue until the exchanges close. I imagine that there are only a handful of professional traders doing arbitrage between China and the West. If so, they should have lots of money and would not need to deposit money very often, so they won't mind the inconvenience as long as there is a way to do it. Why would this NOT create a private courier system? would that work? Send the fiat to the courier, and the courier delivers the fiat to the exchange. Does seem a bit inconvenient way to convert back and forth to/from Fiat and BTC.
If the courier had a frequent schedule and served many clients, it would be essentially an unregistered money service. I doubt that it would be tolerated, even if it were not serving a bitcoin exchange. I suspect that the main worry of the government at this point is possible use of the CNY inut/output channels of bitcoin exchanges for money laudering, paying bribes, illegal trade, etc.. The money that they move is tiny by PBoC standards, but huge by police standards.
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610
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 26, 2014, 04:04:28 AM
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Chinese Slumber Method prediction for Saturday April 26Prediction valid for: Saturday 2014-04-26, 19:00--19:59 UTC (not before, not after) Huobi's predicted price: 2814 CNY Bitstamp's predicted price: 447 USD [ Plot legend ] The fairly straight price trend that held for the last six Slumber Times was obviously broken. Today's data point was rather weak (S = 0.0062 W = 0.469), but since it is the only point we have for the new trend (if any) we must use it as the basis of the trivial prediction, "tomorrow's price will be the same as today's". The Bitstamp prediction, as usual, is the Huobi prediction divided by the currency conversion factor R, which was assumed to be 6.29 CNY/USD. It was 6.05 today, but the low weight W makes this value suspicious. It was 6.30, 6.28, 6.34, 6.27, 6.25, 6.26 at the previous five Slumber Times. Checking the previous predictionPrediction was posted on: Thursday 2014-04-24, 22:03 UTC Prediction was valid for: Friday 2014-04-25, 19:00--19:59 UTC (~21 hours later) Huobi's predicted price: 3067 CNY Huobi's actual price (L+H)/2: 2814 CNY Error: 253 CNY (~40 USD) Bitstamp's predicted price: 488 USD Bitstamp's actual price (L+H)/2: 465 USD Error: 23 USD NOTE: "Anything that calls itself 'science' probably isn't." -- John Searle
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611
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 26, 2014, 02:57:34 AM
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I understand that withdrawing BTC from Huobi and such is still possible? If so, I do not believe we can have Gox-style decoupling - arbitrage, a.k.a. dumping Chinese coins on Bitsamp and such is still possible. It was complete inability to withdraw anything from Gox that coused its prices to decouple.
That is my understanding too. Yes but arbing only works for so long when you cant get money back into a Chinese exchange.
Even if all "easy" deposit channels are cut off, I imagine that there will be ways to get money into the exchanges, e.g. taking cash to their offices. Perhaps even after May 10. Arbitrage seems to be a lucrative activity for those who have the skills and tools, so they have enough motivation and money to find a way.
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612
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 26, 2014, 12:18:18 AM
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What date is this deadline? Need to make sure to pop it in my calendar. Might as well set it as a reoccurring entry these days!
There seems to be a May 10th deadline, not sure for what exactly: 某大型商业银行人士也向记者证实了央行的上述要求,并指出,在派员参加约谈之前,该行已经进行了全面排查,确认自身没有违规问题,但从约谈后央行提 供的帐户信息看,该银行有多个地区的分行违规开立了帐户。“违规的情况令人震惊,央行掌握的帐户信息比我们自己还清楚,央行的决心也比我们预想的要大得 多。”该人士表示。
Central bank asked all commercial banks and third-party payment agencies before May 10 , " Beijing Bitcoin International Summit" held to convey to the public that it no longer provides financial services to any Bitcoin transaction attitudes guide people away from Bitcoin transactions.
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613
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 25, 2014, 04:38:28 PM
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That's not true at all. Many felonies have been committed. If adequate logs were collected, many crimes could be prosecuted, and the criminal actors would meet justice. The only reason this hasn't already happened is because the governments hate the people. Why would they defend property rights of mere citizens? Citizens are for rape and plunder.
Ridiculous. The only reason why most bitcoin crimes go unpunished and victims get no reparation is that bitcoin was appropriated by rabid "libertarians" who hate governments, law, regulations, and police. The logical consequence of assuming that those things are evil is that "there are no criminals nor victims, only smart people and stupid people". The invariable response of the "bitcoin community" to each new bitcoin scam or heist is "stupid victims, they should have blah blah blah."
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616
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 25, 2014, 12:46:58 PM
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We'll first off it's not even guaranteed that the world will adopt any form of crypto but if they do it might be something that is nothing like any of the current 'coins'. It might be non-blockchain-based and use some other technology that we can't even imagine currently.
I can imagine two radical alternatives: cryptocurrencies issued and managed by (1) large private multinational companies or consortia (banks, insurance companies, retailers, google, facebook, ...) or (2) national governments (USAcoin, BitEuro, RussiaCoin, etc.). These cryptos would retain the idea of offline generation of address/key pairs, but junk all the other "features" of bitcoin (anonymity, decentralized management, independence from gov & banks, irrevocability, mining, limited number, deflation, ...). Libertarians would hate them (and would hate (1) too), but for most consumers and retailers they may be even better than bitcoin.
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617
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 25, 2014, 12:28:00 PM
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Jorge, honestly, what if tomorrow our beloved PBOC dudes wake up with a bad migrain, and start the FUD again?? can TA predict that??? It didnt rain yesterday, it isnt raining now... are you sure it wont rain tomorrow??? Enough of the TA predictions.. By and large I don't believe in TA either. But "tomorrow the weather will be like today" used to be a pretty good weather prediction method, 10-20 years ago. Meteorologists with satellites and supercomputers could barely get a few percent more accuracy than that. (Now they may do much better, I don't know.) I suspect that piecewise extrapolation can do a little better than that trivial method, AT HUOBI, FOR MIDDLE-OF-NIGHT PRICES, because of very special circumstances in that exchange. At some point I will tabulate and compare the two methods. But I am afraid of what I might conclude then...
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619
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 25, 2014, 05:32:38 AM
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...why is there no discussion anywhere that the BTC given to Mt.Gox for safekeeping are not that company's assets, nor loans to it? They belong to the customers as customer property (or customer funds).
Is this interpretation confirmed by courts somewhere? One possible complication is that bitcoins were virtually traded for dollars etc. inside MtGOX. So if a client deposited 200$ when the BTC price was 10$, and traded traded traded until he had 50 BTC and 600$ in his MtGOX's account -- are those 50 BTC and 600$ his "property given to MrGOX for safekeeping", debts of MtGOX towards him, or just irrelevant numbers once displayed on a webpage?
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620
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Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
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on: April 25, 2014, 05:22:05 AM
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I believe I have gleaned from Jorge's posts that he may be able to help us get into Latin America strong. He can really drum up support at the University, perhaps by pacing around in front of the cafeteria wearing a Bitcoin sandwich board.
I will ask Dilma to appoint me Minister of Bitcoin, and put the BCB (Central Blockchain of Brazil) under my authority. If THAT news does not crash the price to zero, nothing will.
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