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101  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 18, 2014, 01:00:27 PM
I'm actually looking for a data feed from Huobi and OKCoin at the moment for a project... but if I find it I am afraid I will drown in data Smiley
bitcoincharts.com now (finally!) lists OKCoin. (Maybe next century they will admit the existence of Huobi too.)  You can get the summary data from the site, at 1 minute intervals, since the site started (but only 2 days at a time).

You can get transaction logs for Huobi and OKCoin through bitcoinwisdom's API, but I don't know how far back in the past.
102  Other / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Navajo [NAV]- The Unbreakable Code [PoS/Anonymity/Privacy] on: July 18, 2014, 05:35:07 AM
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU GUYS, but I cannot understand an idea unless it is written in uppercase with a bold red 60 pt font.  Wink
103  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Phinnaeus Gage aka ~Bruno Kucinskas where are you? on: July 18, 2014, 12:36:06 AM
You wrote "his sudden refusal to accept a phone call from me", but a more accurate description of the facts  may be "no one is answering the phone at his home,".  Is that so?
That is correct, although it is a cell phone and not a home phone.
Do you think that he knew that it was you calling? (E. g. because you had called him from the same phone before.)  Have you tried calling him from a phone that he cannot recognize as yours?

Has anyone else tried to call him?

If he is not answering *any* calls, then other explanations seem much more likely.

104  Other / Off-topic / Re: Jeff Ownby is VP of BFL or: Who is Jeffrey Ownby? on: July 18, 2014, 12:08:42 AM
Yea, accept that Phinneas disappeared and before he did he no longer seemed to care about the screwing that BFL is doing... it's almost as if they paid him off and/or gave him a pair of cement galoshes.
His last major investigations were about (1) Brock Pierce and (2) Gonzague Gay-Bouchery, and their connecitions, on which he worked  energically up to the eve of his disappearance.   However, given the almost complete lack of interest of the community, he may have just got fed up with that topic.   (I would have given up much earlier.  I hope he will devote his energy to something more rewarding than trying to protect this community from the scammers and incompentent entrepreneurs it seems to love so much.  Tongue)

On his last day at this forum, he posted about Black Arrow, another miner manufacturer apparently delaying its shipments, and referred to AMT, yet another one which seems to have been an old bone of his. 

If he was indeed "convinced" to shut up, there is no lack of suspects...
105  Other / Off-topic / Re: Jeff Ownby is VP of BFL or: Who is Jeffrey Ownby? on: July 17, 2014, 11:11:07 PM
For the record, this seems relevant to this thread too:

CoinReport, Posted On 16 Jul 2014
‘A Strong Stench of Fraud’: Butterfly Labs Allegedly Buys Buttcoin.org
https://coinreport.net/butterfly-labs-buys-buttcoin-domain-reputation-management/
106  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Phinnaeus Gage aka ~Bruno Kucinskas where are you? on: July 17, 2014, 10:54:54 PM
I agree with pretty much everything you have wrote which is the reason that I have been so patient on this, at this point I feel there is really no other valid reason for this other than he is ripping me off period
You wrote "his sudden refusal to accept a phone call from me", but a more accurate description of the facts  may be "no one is answering the phone at his home,".  Is that so?
107  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 17, 2014, 09:56:28 PM
May be of interest to someone:
This Chinese article seems to be about a Chinese project to build an open-source software base for crypto exchanges:
http://www.lupaworld.com/article-240781-1.html
The project is supposed to be on Github but unfortunately the the article does not give an URL.
Google transates the project name as "brave open source" which is probably wrong.
108  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 17, 2014, 09:18:39 PM
When Risto asked us to make predictions for (the rest of) 2014,   back in 2014-04-14, I provided two sets, the "bear-masked" one that was just re-posted, and the following "bull-masked" set:

Since it is free, why not:
LET'S GIVE PROBABILITIES TO THE FOLLOWING EVENTS
a) In 2014, price will visit below 100 = 10%
b) In 2014, price will visit below 200 = 20%
c) In 2014, price will visit below 300 = 30%
d) In 2014, price will visit below 400 = 40%
e) In 2014, price will visit above 500 = 40%
f) In 2014, price will visit above 750 = 10%
g) In 2014, price will visit above 1000 = 3%
h) In 2014, price will visit above 1250 = 1%
i) In 2014, price will visit above 2000 = 0.1%
j) In 2014, price will visit above 3000 = 0.01%
k) In 2014, price will visit above 4000 = 0.001%
l) In 2014, price will visit above 5000 = 0.0001%
m) In 2014, price will visit above 7000 = 0.00001%
n) In 2014, price will visit above 10000 = 0.000001%
/LET'S GIVE PROBABILITIES TO THE FOLLOWING EVENTS
These numbers were picked while wearing by bull mask.  Grin

Admittedly it makes no mathematical sense to have two sets of probabilities for the same events (that could be a good definition of schizophrenia).   But, anyway:

On that day, Apr/14, the price at Bitstamp ranged from 408$ to 475$.  After that day, the the price has ranged from 420$ (May/06) to 683$ (Jun/01). 

So, one event for which my bullish half gave 40% probability of happening has happened ("price will go above 500$").  All the other events, for which I gave probability 40% or less, have still to happen.

So, can we wait until the end of the year before deciding who was too pessimist and who was too optimist?




109  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 17, 2014, 07:41:00 PM
Easy solution? Incorporate outside of the US and give them the middle finger. Americans always think their laws apply outside of the US.
And they do, unfortunately.

That proposed regulation, and other existing state and federal regulations, apply to any foreign based companies who sell products or services to residents (of the respective states, or of the US).  Foreign companies are supposed to ask customers where they reside, and comply with the laws of the client's country, as well as of the country where the company is located.

If the foreign company fails to do so, and sells to US customers violating US federal or state laws,  the US may try to prosecute the company, asking for extradition and/or cooperation of the local authorities.  (IIRC, at least one foreign-based fund out there warns right away that they don't sell shares to US residents.  And, IIRC, Mircea Popescu -- a notable bitcoin stock exchange operator in Romania -- got a letter from the SEC about that; I don't know how it ended.)

If the customer lies about his place of residence, and the US finds out, I presume that *he* may be in trouble instead.
110  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 17, 2014, 07:16:22 PM
In essence, Jorge's prediction is [ bla bla... ]

Hey, those probabilities are MINE! All MINE! If you want to have probabilities too, go get your own!

 Wink
111  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 17, 2014, 01:19:06 PM
My bear-masked estimates are
are

So you really think we'll see something much worse than the Mtgox crash in 2014 with a probability of over 50%?

Is that realistic?  Do you have something specific in mind?
In my reply to JJG I said clearly that I do not see how one can make 'fundamented' predictions.  Anyone can make guesses out of thin air, just from 'intuition' (which is 'prejudice' to others, of course  Cheesy).

Those were my BEAR-MASKED estimates, just from 'intuition', with the bear side of my brain turned on and the bull side turned off. 

But yes, it is quite possible that the price will crash to 100$ or lower. MtGOX actually did not have much of an impact; for one thing it was mostly a Western problem that did not affect the Chinese speculators very much.  The only significant impact of MtGOX was on Feb/10 when Mark announced a "bug in the protocol", but price immediately recovered when the claim was dismissed.

The really bad events were the PBoC decrees, and rumors about them.    The correlation of Chinese bad/good news and large drops/rises is quite obvious.  They caused the fall in early December, and several large drops in 2014, reaching briefly down to 350$. The recovery in late December was due to Huobi and then OKCoin finding workarounds to the decree.

If the price dropped to 350$ on unfounded rumors, promptly dismissedm, it is easy to predict that, if China were to take a much harder stance on bitcoin (and there is no way of telling whether they will) the price would surely fall to well below 350$.

How much below that?  It is hard to tell what would be the price if China had never entered the picture, but I am convinced that without China the 2013 rallies (April, October, and November) would not have happened, and the price today would be below 100$.  That is where my guesstimate '40% chance of below 100$ in 2014' above came from.
112  Economy / Services / Re: I was hacked (1170btc stolen) - 500btc max BOUNTY on: July 17, 2014, 12:11:13 PM
C'm'on folks, abstractions only go so far... bitcoin mixer operators know very well that they are being used for money laundering, and they warmly welcome that clientele.
113  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 17, 2014, 12:04:21 PM
My bear-masked estimates are

LET'S GIVE PROBABILITIES TO THE FOLLOWING EVENTS
a) In 2014, price will visit below 100 = 40%
b) In 2014, price will visit below 200 = 60%
c) In 2014, price will visit below 300 = 70%
d) In 2014, price will visit below 400 = 80%
e) In 2014, price will visit above 500 = 30%
f) In 2014, price will visit above 750 = 5%
g) In 2014, price will visit above 1000 = 1%
h) In 2014, price will visit above 1250 = 0% (for practical purposes)
/LET'S GIVE PROBABILITIES TO THE FOLLOWING EVENTS

Is there more than one Jorge??
I also had a set of bull-masked probabilities. And I prefixed them with something like "what the heck, everybody is playing, why not me too".

And I refused to bet on those probabilities at the time, too.


114  Economy / Services / Re: I was hacked (1170btc stolen) - 500btc max BOUNTY on: July 17, 2014, 05:07:37 AM
Using a bitcoin mixer the way that the OP's attacker did was not laundering the bitcoin, but rather trading his bitcoin for other bitcoin that is unlinked to the coins that were put in. [ ... ]

Money laundering is when you mask the source of income to make it look legit when the income was truly obtained from illegal sources. [ ... ]
Well, that goes against all I thought I knew.  Or, rather, both sentences describe money launderins, only that one is the process, the other is the goal.

AFAIK, money laundering is indeed exchanging "dirty" money, that came from illegal activities (in this case, theft), for "clean" money, that (hopefully) cannot be linked to the dirty one, and appears to have come from legitimate sources.
115  Economy / Services / Re: I was hacked (1170btc stolen) - 500btc max BOUNTY on: July 17, 2014, 04:44:16 AM
According to the US, bitcoin is not currency or money. It is an asset.
But that does not matter. AML enforcement agencies are not that dumb; they undrstand that one way to launder money is to convert it to other assets, like gold, stocks, art, boats, real estate, etc..
How stuff works: Money laundering basics
116  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Phinnaeus Gage aka ~Bruno Kucinskas where are you? on: July 17, 2014, 04:39:44 AM
In fact, I am puzzled by the community's lack of interest about BP's career and connection.
Some of us publicly resigned from the foundation on their forums over this nomination.
Indeed, and you deserve much applause and respect for that.  But generally that seems to have been ignored.

Actually I was not thinking to his past troubles with the law, which one could even pretend that are no longer relevant.  Methinks that bitcoiners should worry about his creation and management of IGE, that cornered the game money market, and the way he got "elected" to the board of drectors (is he president?) of the Bitcoin Foundation -- even though his previous activity in the bitcoin scene seems to have been very small. Will he try to do with bitcoin what he did with game money?  Is Realcoin the first step in that direction?
117  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 17, 2014, 12:43:46 AM
I don't believe the over 70, no way!
I am almost 64...  Undecided
118  Economy / Services / Re: I was hacked (1170btc stolen) - 500btc max BOUNTY on: July 17, 2014, 12:11:29 AM
If you give me a $100 bill and I give you back $100 in change in smaller bills have I committed a crime?
Is it my responsibility to get AML and KYC information from every random stranger that asks me for change?  If I don't is it a crime?
That is what a mixer does:  makes change.
The mixer has done nothing wrong.  The mixer is not obligated to keep customer records.  The mixer simply makes change.

If you exchange 500'000 USD in cash for other cash, you are not making change. You are, quite likely, helping someone keep money that is 'dirty' in some sense out of reach of the the police; and you kow that.  That is what 'money laundering' is.

If, after you are long gone I find out that the $100 bill you gave me was stolen have I committed a crime and am I obligate to return the $100 bill to the injured party?
In principle not, if you received that dollar bill in good faith.  If the police is after someone's money for some reason, they don't want the same baknotes, only a certain amount of money.  So the question is: how much will the courts demand from each of the people who cooperated in the illegal act (including anyone who consciously provided money laundering services), to make up for the stolen money, evaded taxes, fines, damages, expenses, etc.

[ The mixer ] takes in fungible BTC and returns fungible BTC.  Unless you don't think BTC are fungible?
It is not up to the bitcoiners to decide whether bitcoins are fungible or not.  Fungibility of bitcoins, or of dollar bills, may be a desire of their users, but it is not a legal right nor a mathematical consequence of the protocol's design.

Bills and bitcoins are fungible only if those who receive them cannot be expected to check their origin.

Dollar bills are generally fungible because those who receive them cannot be forced to check their serial numbers against a police database of stolen cash.  But, if the Bank of Smallville was robbed yesterday, then a dufflebag full of neat 100$-bill bundles, with "Bank of Smallville" printed on the paper bands, will not be fungible at all.  A car dealer who accepts a few bundles out of that bag could be charged with knowingly receiving stolen money; and that charge may stick in court.

Ditto if a bank receives for deposit a large pile of loose 100$ banknotes, since the bank can be expected to check at least some of their serial numbers against said database.

If thousands of BTC are stolen by a hacker, any address that receives them, pure or mixed, will be suspected of being controlled by the thief, or by his accomplces, or by other people who may be trying to hide other money from the police.  Therefore, anyone who accepts a large BTC payment and does not make a minimal effort to check their history may get charged with etc. etc..  That check may be rather impactical at present, but if the police were to set up a database of addresses containing 'dirty' bitcoins, updated in real time as they move in the blockchain, then people may be legally required to check that database when receiving a large bitcoin payment. (Note that one must be connected to the internet when using bitcoin, but not when using cash.)  If that comes to pass, bitcoins will not be fungible at all.
119  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: BitcoinWisdom.com - Live Bitcoin/LiteCoin Charts on: July 16, 2014, 10:29:26 PM
Just in case: Huobi has launched a new exchange in Hong Kong, "BitVC" https://www.bitvc.com/
Trades BTC, LTC, and CNY (or CNH?).  Currently open only to invited users, but the daily volume seems to be over 12 kBTC already.
120  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Sonny Vleisides (Butterfly Labs CEO) 2014 Court Transcript [The TL/DR version] on: July 16, 2014, 08:47:16 PM
Sigh.

I have tweeted a warning about the BFL scam to my Brazilian followers (if there are still any active ones), with links to this thread and the "20 million mail fraud" thread.  That is the kind of appropriate action anyone can take to help.

Spamming the BFL inbox is sort of OK, but will only give them an excuse to ignore client emails. 

Pestering CoinDesk, the Bitcoin Foundation, and other bitcoin outfits that are guilty by their silence on the matter would only be fair, and may be more effective.

But mass spamming other sites and people who have nothing to do with bitcoin or BFL is a terrible idea.  Add up the time spent by users and admins of all the sites you intend to spam, and it will easily be more than the amount BFL owes, and certainly much more than what they are likely to return as a result of this campaign (which is quite probably zero).

It is not a matter of "keeping the high moral groud in the fight against BFL": people who do that sort of thing for that sort of motive are scumbags, no matter what their grievances are.

(And, since I or my employer may end up being a target of that spamming, of course I have all the right to complain here.)
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