Folder: webmail-ic-2008-11-18/Voynich
From stolfi@ic.unicamp.br  Sat Mar 12 18:07:00 2005
Message-ID: <35418.143.106.23.232.1110661618.squirrel@webmail.ic.unicamp.br>
In-Reply-To: <200503120525.j2C5PjGE031996@mail3.alphalink.com.au>
References: <200503120525.j2C5PjGE031996@mail3.alphalink.com.au>
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:06:58 -0300 (BRT)
Subject: [Piraha] Re: I'll swap you...
From: "Jorge Stolfi" <stolfi@ic.unicamp.br>
To: jguy@alphalink.com.au


> Remember that book you found going for $2, and a good part of which
> you typed in and posted to the Voynich list?

I posted only a couple of samples; the book is exactly 400 pages long
(the author's doctoral thesis at Unicamp's linguistics dept.)
Shortly after I bought the book, I typed a few more samples from it,
and part of its lexicon

  http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/PUB/misc/misc/piraha.txt
  http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/PUB/misc/misc/piraha.dic

I got down to sample sentence (096) on page 57; the last sample
in the book is (482) on page 216.  As for the lexicon, it is 12 pages long,
and so far I typed one page and a half. So those two files look like
Stolfi's Never Finished Projects #231543-A and #231543-B.

> I am becoming more and more persuaded that
> the Piraha "language" is a gigantic hoax thought
> up by the Piraha indians (whatever language they
> really speak).

I can't swear for the honesty of all involved, but the probablility that
Brazilian indians --- who are at the very bottom of our social scale,
below migrant cane cutters, slum dwellers and homeless juvenile delinquents
--- could invent such an elaborate linguistic hoax is rather small.
If there is a hoax, they may be the actors, but the director must be
someone more sophisticated -- a la Tasaday.

There are several names and leads mentioned in the introduction, that may be
worth following. See below.

> I found an August 1998 post from
> the author, Daniel Everest, where he was announcing
> a web site that would have 5 megabytes of corpora.
> Today,  almost seven years later, all I could find
> was six texts, two of which were not even analyzed
> and translated. There is a "dictionary" too, but
> if that is anywhere near a full dictionary, then
> Piraha not only has the smallest phoneme inventory,
> but also the smallest vocabulary. And lots of words
> found in those six texts are missing from the
> dictionary too.

> Now, if you are agreeable (I hope you haven't
> thrown that book into the garbage bin?) I'll
> send you a scan of my "Vocabulary of Rotokas
> Pidgin and English" on a CD, in exchange for
> a scan of your Piraha book. Oh, sure, that's
> piracy, breach of copyright, and all that
> (so call me Lampião) but what's the point
> of spending the price of a bottle of wine
> on stamps when a CD costs practically nothing
> and sending it costs next to nothing?

I will see what is the best way to get you a copy of the book.
(Please don't let me forget that promise.) Unicamp was supposed to
have all their theses available on-line, but at its bureucratic speed
we can't count on that project being implemented this century.
In a couple of days, a student of mine is expected to install a scanner
with automatic document feeder, and perhaps that will do.

But the simplest way is indeed to send you the book, air mail.  The publisher is the
University's own ("Editora Unicamp") and they may still have a few left, so I
may not even have to part with my copy.  As for the postage, its is bona-fide
research, so I can send it at the University's expense (1).  (But please don't
let me forget that promise.)

Meanwhile, I will send you shortly some excerpts from the introduction,
that may help you to, ahem, refocus your hypotheses on the affair.

> Hmmm... perhaps you are not too keen on Rotokas.
> Well, then, you name it.

Rotokas would be fine as payment, but I am more curious about the Easter
Island script.  Have you posted anything that I should look up? (I still
six six months of the VMS list to catch up with...)

> Até logo. (I probably stuffed that up....)

No, it's perfect. All the best, and au revoir...

--stolfi

PS. Next monday, as the newly-installed head of this dept, I am paying
a visit to the university's accounting officer --- the first step in
the quest to unravel the line "miscellaneous expenses: US$ 200,000.00"
in our financial report for last year. I gather that "coffee breaks"
may account for some US$ 10,000 of that total, but that may turn out
to be the noblest and most proper item of the lot. If you read that my
body has been found floating in the university's duck pond, you
already know why. 8-)