Folder: webmail-ic-2008-11-18/Voynich
From stolfi@ic.unicamp.br  Thu Mar 17 11:27:15 2005
Message-ID: <39275.143.106.23.232.1111069634.squirrel@webmail.ic.unicamp.br>
In-Reply-To: <200503171217.j2HCHhkx029483@mail2.alphalink.com.au>
References: <200503171217.j2HCHhkx029483@mail2.alphalink.com.au>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:27:14 -0300 (BRT)
Subject: Re: Piraha: it has to be a gigantic hoax
From: "Jorge Stolfi" <stolfi@ic.unicamp.br>
To: jguy@alphalink.com.au


  > So at first they spoke Tupian to Everett, and at the
  > same time they are monolingual! Well, those two pieces
  > of information being 64 pages apart, I wonder who else
  > will notice.

Yep...

  > "Consider the following example of what Everett (1985) calls the
  > 'sloppy phoneme effect' :
  > (6) tí píai ~ kí píai ~ kí kíai ~ pí píai ~ 'í píai ~ 'í 'íai ~
  >     tí píai, etc. (*tí tíai, * gí gíai, *bí bíai) 'me too'
  > (7) 'apapaí ~kapapaí ~papapaí ~'a'a'aí ~kakakaí ~(*tapapaí, *tatataí,
  >     *bababaí, *gagagaí) 'head'
  > (8) 'ísiihoái ~kísiihoái ~písiihoái ~píhiihoái ~kíhiihoái ~
  >     (alternations with /t/s or involving different values for [continuant]
  >     or [voicing] are unattested) 'liquid fuel'"

  > So "head" is indifferently  xapapai, kapapai, papapai,
  > xaxaxai, or kakakai? No language can work like that and
  > remain functional.

There is a section about that phonetic variation in the book. I try to
scan or type it.

It occurred me that perhaps the Pirahã language is used only for
whistling/crying. I vaguely remember reading that African tam-tam code
is a very degenerate form of the local speech, where nouns are
replaced by long paraphrases to compensate the fact that phonemes are
reduced to a few drum notes.

But a hoax or fraud still seems far more likely...

Meanwhile, I paid a visit to the Unicamp Press.  The book is indeed sold out;
that copy I bought for $2 was their clearance sale. But that applies to
the room where they keep books for over-the-counter sales. In the adjoining room,
where they keep books for internet sales, they still had several copies,
priced $12 each. Since I was a Unicamp professor, they gave me a 50% discount.
I suppose that in the logic system of the Pirahã that may actually make sense.

Anyway, I have your copy, and I will be mailing it out today, at the
dept's expense. (I am presently sorting through last year's accounting
spreadsheets, and I have just spotted $100 for repairs to the
expresso-making machine. The *regular* coffee bill should be around
$2400, not including the biscuits and other amenities...)

> He give the secret away p.62: "The absence of formal
> fiction, myths, etc. does not mean that they do not
> or cannot joke or lie, both of which they particularly
> enjoy doing at my expense, always good-naturedly."
>
> Those Pirahã probably speak some Tupi dialect when
> Everett is out of earshot

Perhaps... Still, I find it hard to believe that they could mount such
an elaborate joke on their own.  At the very least, Everett must have been
very, very willing to be deceived...

All the best,

--stolfi