Folder: mail-procmail-2008-11-18/2007-02-20-160800-voynich
From owner-vms-list@voynich.net  Sat Jul 15 12:38:51 2006
Message-ID: <000f01c6a823$1a7bcac0$0e698848@D674ZD61>
From: "mjmurphy" <4mjmu@rogers.com>
To: <vms-list@voynich.net>
References: <200607150209.AA382927470@mail.asus.net><op.tcp1vgp4typ5yo@system>
Subject: Re: VMs: Kircher, Piraha
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:26:54 -0400

Jacques Guy wrote:

> Yet, in his introduction, he tells how, when he started
> studying Piraha, his wife (who seems to be an Amazonian native)
> warned him that his informants were talking to him in a dialect of ...
> I forgot the name of the language (I seem to remember it started with
> "M"... when I find that book again...). So much for monolingual
> Piraha. And he does not say how he got them to switch to "real Piraha".

He also claims (in various articles) that they barter with the Portugese in 
that neighboring language, if I recall correctly.  But this is I think more 
of an example of the fact that Everett is prone to overstatement.  Poke him 
and he'll say that they are just mostly monolingual etc.

>
> To me, it's clear. The gringo doesn't want us to teach him our language?
> (A dialect of M...). He insists on something else? Never mind, we'll make
> something up for him. A bit of this, a bit of that, keep him happy.
>
> I went through something similar 30 years ago in the Solomon Islands,
> but it didn't take me long to realise I was being bullshitted.

Remember there is (in modern times) also a fellow named Gorden who has 
studied Piraha.  He is generally in agreement with Everett, although they 
differ on a number of issues (I think Gorden believes that a number of words 
in Piraha function as color terms, for example).  Everett also references 
earlier work by missionaries, who pointed out in general terms the "oddness" 
of the language much earlier.

And again, the Linguistic community has generally dubbed Everett competent 
(for example, I don't think there is any real controversy concerning his 
work on Wari and other languages.  I would be inclined (although let me say 
I am not a Linguist) to assume that, if they couldn't succeed in 
bullshitting you, Everett would not fall prey either (he claims to have 
spent about 7 years with the Piraha).

Cheers,

M.J.Murphy