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581  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 10:21:23 PM
$10.00 in 1914 had the same buying power as $233.05 in 2014.
Annual inflation over this period was 3.20%.
10 BTC on February 1, 2014 had the same buying power as 18.31 BTC on April 27, 2014. 
Annual inflation over this period was 1246.66%.
582  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 09:48:58 PM
What is a dynamometer?  A simple way to construct one is to use a spring and mark equally-spaced lines to indicate how far the spring has stretched.  You can then place a "mass" on the end of the spring and measure the spring's stretch by counting lines.  You then say that "force is the change in the number of lines," but by doing this you are implicitly assuming that Hooke's law holds (that f = k x).  All of physics is a bunch of definitions and equations piled up on top of each other that are self-consistent and that explain what we see in the natural world.  They are human constructions.
Indeed, in another planet perhaps the scientists are underwater barnacle-like beings, so they have no force sensors in their non-existent arm muscles, never invented the lever (and balance scales), pulley, and inclined planes, and never noticed of Hooke's law; until one of them defined force by f = ma and went on to find that this abstract concept obeyed many interestting properties, including Hooke's law and weight = g m.

But that is not how things happened on this planet, sorry.

Satoshi Nakamoto once said [ ... ] When Newton wrote "Principia," he planted the seeds that would change mankind's perception of reality over the next several hundred years.  When Satoshi wrote "Bitcoin: a peer-to-peer electronic cash system," I would argue that he did the same thing.  

I think if you were alive in the days of Newton, you would have been a bishop of the Catholic Church.

Wait, I thought that I was the lone odious heretic in this thread who dared to question the Holy Words of Satoshi (as properly corrected, expanded and interpreted by the numerous Reverend Fathers of the Holy Church  of Bitcoin, who, according to themselves, were appointed by Him to spread the Word and prepare mankind for His triumphant Second Coming).  Wink
583  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 09:12:45 PM
EDIT: and their data has not been updated for 3 hours already.  Another DDOS attack? Or the owner went to pay a visit to Danny Brewster?

This is a funny twist on Atlas Shrugged! Libertarians keep saying Bitcoin is like Atlas Shrugged. Perhaps Galt's Gulch (the place in the novel to where "captains of industry" disappear) is in actuality the place to where Bitcoin scammers/criminals disappear after absconding. Karpeles, pirateat40, DPR, they're all vacationing in Libertarian heaven, Galt's Gulch.
Cheesy
584  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 07:32:43 PM
I know the difference. Dodgy insider dealings and bankruptcy? It's not a real-world comparison.
You mean, something like what happened at MtGOX's?  Wink

Note that it took two years between the time some people lost faith in the company's future (the start of the share price downtrend) until the real extent of Worldcom's problems became known, and it filed for bankruptcy.

Was MtGOX just a bump in the road for Bitcoin, or an early sign?  Undecided
585  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 07:24:08 PM
Bitcoinwisdom is completely fubar on Huobi.

Do they have a 90-minute engine "optimization"?
Why is the orderbook shifted by 60 CNY?
Sawtooth price soon?
This has happened several times in the past.  Last time I asked Bitcoinwisdom's owner and he said it was a  bug in Huobi's server, not his scripts.  

Coincidentally, this Huobi bug seems to hit whenever there is a price crash.  Last time it was a freak 5000 BTC sale that went all the way down to the Lower Mantle; their chart froze in a bizarre state, and when it came back up that sale had apparently been rolled back.

EDIT: and their data has not been updated for 3 hours already.  Another DDOS attack? Or the owner went to pay a visit to Danny Brewster?
586  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 07:09:23 PM
This is how we make progress in theoretical physics.  A good example is Newton's Second Law: f = m a.  A lot people think that this is some discovery about a "fundamental law of the universe," but it is actually just a definition.  The net force acting on an object is defined by humans to be equal to the product of the object's mass and acceleration.  You could equally create another "law" that says f2 = m v, where v is velocity and f2 is "force 2.0."  Both are correct by definition, but only one is useful.  If you calculate the "force 2.0" of gravity, you'll get a complex mess; whereas the "force" of gravity is an elegant equation.
Well, I would take issue with that. Sure, mathematically one can choose any set of consistent concepts and true statementes as the starting point, and treat the remainder as derived.

However, that is not how f = ma developed historically.  Acceleration of course is defined as the second derivative of position with respect to time, and Galileo, before Newton, was one who contributed to the understanding of uniformly accelerated motion.  Force however can be "felt" and measured independently of any motion (e.g. with a dynamometer), and well before f = ma there was allready a large consistent quantitative theory of forces without motion, that included weight ("two identical objects have twice the weight of one"), levers, pulleys, and inclined planes, buoyancy and more.   So when Newton stated f = ma, he indeed discovered a law of nature.
587  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 06:55:13 PM
Yes. Technical analysis, sentiment analysis and, to a certain extent, fundamental analysis all work with Bitcoin. Here is a good one, with real fundamentals: https://medium.com/p/ba5f3fcce103
Thanks for the article.

Even though it is supposed to be a "bearish" article, I think that it is too optimistic already when it implicitly identifies "crypto-currency" with "bitcoin".   Consider this hypothetical statement that one might have made 20 years ago:

Quote
The World Wide Web is here to stay.  As more people choose to use it to publish text and data, more people will have to use it in order to get the information they need.  Surely, there will be a time in the not-so-distant future when perhaps 500 million people will use the Web regularly, and perhaps 10% of them will find it essential for their business or work.  Therefore, we can conservatively predict that a Netscape browser license will sell for 10'000 dollars or more by then.
588  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 06:38:08 PM
Do you happen to like it in the academia when somebody who has no experience on the subject that you have been researching for months, uses childish non-real world examples to prove that in some cases the model you have been researching and using with incredible precision, would give strange results?
Sorry, we teachers develop a bad habit of simplifying 40 years of experience with a tool into childish examples.

What would your incredibly precise model say about this real-world (in more than one sense!) example:



What difference do you see between Apr/1997 and Jan/2000 in this example?

589  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 05:05:02 PM
Though the great thing about linear regression is that as long as the price starts out at 0, the slope can't ever be negative, so all is well, and all will forever be well so long as there is a non-zero trading price. Infinite profits ahead, guaranteed. Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Eg.with Auroracoin the slope is already negative. Linear regression could not prevent it.
Hm, that points out a problem with using linear regression on all the monthly points.

Suppose two items A, B that start out both at the same price 1$. Item A then grows steadily to 1000$ over 2 years.  Item B shoots up to 2000$ on the first month and then decays steadily to 1000$ in the next 23 months.

Linear regression will give a positive slope for item A and a negative slope for item B, even though both increased by a factor of 1000 over that time span.

On the other hand, consider item C that starts out at 1000$, drops to 1$ on the first month and recovers steadily to 1000$ over the next 23 months.  Linear regression would give positive slope.

These examples do not prove that linear regression is "wrong", but should make one aware that its meaning is not what one may think.

"Your results are not right. They are not even wrong." --some famous scientist reviewing the work of some colleague
590  Economy / Speculation / Re: SecondMarket Bitcoin Investment Trust Observer on: April 27, 2014, 04:45:26 PM
SecondMarket could make even more money if they had a private source that would sell them bitcoins below market price. That difference in price would be their extra profit.
They do.
I don't know how KNC sells their mined coins; but they seem to be a carefully planned enterprise, so I guess that they secured from the start a contract with some investor who is bound to buy their bitcoins at a fixed price.  If that price is still below market, that could be a source of cheap coins.

SecondMarket of course will not knowingly buy stolen bitcoins.  But why would not they buy at 80% discount of market price from some respectable investor who bought them at 60% from someone who bought them at 40% from someone who bought them at 25% from a Russian mobster who bought them at 15% from the MtGOX thief?  It is not their job to trace all stolen coins in the blockchain, is it?

EDIT: "80% of market price", of course, not "80% discount".
591  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 04:12:19 PM
I suppose that, in the early days, sites like exchanges and online casinos would have a single bitcoin address for bitcoin deposits, and all clients would transfer bitcoins to it (using the decimal satoshi amount to identify their deposits); whereas now such sites commonly generate a new unique address for each client and/or each deposit.  Is this correct?
592  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 03:04:17 PM
I think we can agree on the following:

- If Bitcoin never makes it big and does not grow over its current 0.02% adoption of the target, it fails, and price per unit may collapse even from the present level.
- If it does make big and its adoption grows to even 500 million people, the price per unit is multiples of what it now is.
Yes, I think we agree on that.
593  Other / Meta / Re: Image proxy broke :( on: April 27, 2014, 02:56:28 PM
My PNG images are still being truncated, randomly. Sometimes reloading the page works, sometimes it doesn't.

It does not seem to be an image size or file size problem; larger JPG images apparently work fine.

It would be tolerable if it gave an error at uploading time, "image too big" or whatever.

Could this be that mythical holy grail of computer alchemists, the Bug That Just Cannot Be Fixed?
594  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 02:20:53 PM
Every exponential price trend that grows faster than population, inflation, and total economic output must perforce cease to hold at some point.  Unchecked, a 10x increase per year would mean that 1 BTC would buy the whole Earth within a few decades.

So, the question is not IF, but WHEN will Bitcoin's price stop following the historic exponential trend?

(Do I need to post again the Worldcom price chart? It followed an exponential trend much more closely and for a longer time than Bitcoin so far...)

Price trends should not be trusted without undersanding the fundamentals behind them.  Some bulls here have their explanation for Bitcoins historical exponential trend.  I have mine,  The conclusions seem to be very different...
595  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 01:56:44 PM
Meanwhile, it looks like Huobi may end the day with the lowest daily volume since Dec/03, lower even than "DDOS Sunday"'s (Mar/23).

Has anyone seen any public response by them to the latest PBoC news? (The red-lamp announcement on their homepage has not changed since Apr/17.)
596  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 01:36:35 PM
I guess this would just end up like Pacquiao vs Mayweather   Grin Grin
The image that comes to my mind is a sumo wrestling match to be played with the speed of a chess-by-mail match.
(No offense intended.)
Cheesy
597  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 07:12:40 AM
In 18 hours or so it will be Monday morning in China.

Maybe nothing special will happen, an the price will "normally" drift from the current 460$.

Or the exchanges may confirm the bad news, and the price may crash.  The dip of Apr/11 shows that the ultimate Chinese Bottom (when the Chinese exchanges are bled to death) is below 340$.  It may not be reached before May/10.

Or the bad news may be dispelled, and the price will rebound.  The upper limit for the rebound should be the level before the Apr/25 crash, around 500$. 
598  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 06:52:14 AM
This article in Chinese seems to have more details on PBoC's "clarification of the clarification", with comments by/about individual exchanges:

http://gd.sina.com.cn/zh/finance/2014-04-26/11502646.html

It is hard to figure out from Google Translate output, but I understood that
* BTC-China and OKCoin think that their "recharge code" system (where clients "purchase" yuan from other clients, paying them without the exchange's involvement) will not be affected;
* Huobi says that their card deposit system is still working.
* However Huobi's cards are "recharged" via AliPay(?)
* AliPay said that they will block any payment related to bitcoin (not just those that contain the word "bitcoin").

Beware that Google translates AliPay sometimes as PayPal, and Huobi.com as "fire currency network".
599  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 06:25:53 AM
May be useful:

狗狗币 = gǒu gǒu bě = dog dog currency = dogs' coin = Dogecoin

 Smiley
600  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 27, 2014, 04:03:02 AM
Fortress is turning its direct investment of 13 M$ in Bitcoin into an investment in a hedge fund.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5877fff0-aefb-11e3-a088-00144feab7de.html#axzz303O1FxGu

This is what I understood, please correct me if I am wrong:

* Fortress owned 13 M$ worth of Bitcoins. (They posted a loss in its Bitcoin investments not long ago, because of the falling BTC prices).

* They have now given the bitcoins to Pantera, in exchange of ownership of a slice of Pantera Capital Management.

* Pantera Capital Management is not a bitcoin investment per se; it manages Pantera Bitcoin Partners (PBP) fund.

* PBP is like SecondMarket's Bitcoin Investment Trust (SMBIT).  Other investors can buy shares of PBP, which will buy bitcoins for them at current marekt price and hold them.  After some time the investors may liquidate, and then PBP will sell those bitcoins at current market price and give the money to them.  (Meanwhile those PBP investors, like the SMBIT investors may perhaps get a chance to trade PBP shares -- privately, or on some specific exchange.)

* If the price goes up in between investment and liquidation, the PBP investors will make a profit.  If the price goes down, they will lose money. If bitcoin goes to the moon, they will be billionaires. If bitcoin crashes to zero, they will lose all their investment.

* Whatever happens to bitcoin price, Pantera Capital Management (hence Fortress) will make money by collecting fees from PBP investors
(a few percent of their investment and eventual profits).

* With a bit of luck, Pantera Capital Management (and hence Fortress) may make additional money by buying bitcoins below market and "selling" them to new PBP investors at market price.

* At some point in the past, the PBP fund already had investors who invested 140 M$ in it.  therefore, it should have bought that much of bitcoins.  (It is not known when they bought and how many BTC the PBP fund now holds.)

It seems that Fortress (like SecondMarket, Pantera, Bitpay, KNC, the exchanges, etc.) found a way to make money from the bitcoin phenomenon, while avoiding the risks of investing directly in bitcoin or bitcoin-based funds.
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