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401  Other / Off-topic / Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: July 01, 2014, 01:23:27 PM
How about a bacon sandwich or did you miss that too?
Oh no, are we going to repeat all the previous 4691 questions too?
402  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process on: July 01, 2014, 01:20:01 PM
You should read the context. Danny lost coins in weex which led to the bankruptcy of neobee.
Where did you get that idea? Have you checked Danny's curriculum in the UK?

As far as i remember NEOBEE went down because they didnt have money anymore. They lost coins in weex and mtgox and danny claimed he already put all his own coins in NEOBEE too. So at the end it looks to me that the coins lost in weex are a reason for NEOBEE going down too.
Neo & Bee went down when their CEO ran away after they failed to get Central Bank authorization for their bank, and he realized that his castle of cards was about to collapse.  He allegedly took the remaining company's coins (and, according to police charges, money that he got from other people in exchange for bitcoins that he did not deliver), leaving behind debts and unpaid salaries.

Only then did investors bother to read the Neo & Bee prospectus and noticed that it did not contain a viable business plan.

Only then did investors bother to check Danny's background, and found that he had no background in finance at all, and he ad pulled a similar stunt in the UK before moving to Cyprus.  He had announced he was going to organize a big music festival in Lincolnshire, sold tickets, got advance license money from food vendors, etc; but then cancelled the event, and said that the debts were not made by his person but by his company, that he had sold, so he owed nothing.

AFAIK he is still hiding, somewhere in the world.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=529946.msg6500610#msg6500610

403  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 01, 2014, 12:57:16 PM
Some vague information about the bid prices:

http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=135754:SecondMarket-Pantera-outbid-in-Bitcoin-auction&catid=69
Pantera Capital CEO Dan Morehead told Reuters the firm was unable to purchase the Bitcoins because its bid was below the market price.  "The point is when this auction was announced, Bitcoin was trading at $634 and the general view was that the supply would take the price down," Morehead said.

https://www.finalternatives.com/node/27493
....The U.S. government auction created a tremendous amount of new demand for bitcoin,” Pantera’s Dan Morehead told The New York Times. “Most of the people we spoke to were new entrants to the bitcoin market. None of our bids were hit. I think it went at quite a high price.”...

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/06/30/after-bitcoin-auction-winning-bidders-remain-elusive/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1
Mr. Waters of CoinApex, who bid as an individual, appeared to send his bid using his cellphone while live on Bloomberg Television on Friday, but later confessed in an interview that he had forgotten to attach the bidding form to his email. He submitted his bid for one block of Bitcoins, at a price of $403 each, later on Friday afternoon. He, too, did not win

There is a thread about the auction results:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=668635
404  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin will plummet to $10 by first half of 2014 on: July 01, 2014, 12:31:52 PM
When exactly did that prof make his prediction?
Based on the article date I would say around mid December
Dec 19 2013 can't recall exactly but it seems about right for this.
Thanks! Charts say that on December 19, the Bitstamp price was 520$ open, 685$ close, 492$ low, 700$ high.  So the price is about back to where it was then.  (I saw some article on that prediction that stated 'currently it is 610$', so that date seems right.)
405  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 01, 2014, 03:44:26 AM
Hey look.  The top story on Slashdot is in regards to Stolfi and Bitcorn.
http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/07/01/0020227/how-often-do-economists-commit-misconduct
You are confusing me with Tuur Demeester perhaps?  Wink
406  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 01, 2014, 03:40:00 AM
They will likely wait until the bidder's fiat clears before they send, I'm assuming they didn't have to wire funds until they were notified they had won, so legacy banking speed means we might see the coins move sometime before the end of the week?
Right.  Also, if one of the winners fails to wire in the payment (and thus loses the 200 k$ deposit)  they have to notify the next highest unfilled bidder, and give him an extra day to send his payment, and so on.  It is only after they got payments for all lots of the same series that the winners and losers (and the winning prices) will be defined. 

Presumably professional bidders like SecondMarket make sure that they have the full amount on hand before submitting a bid.  But who knows what types may have bid on this auction.   
407  Economy / Economics / Re: Distribution of bitcoin wealth by owner on: July 01, 2014, 02:10:42 AM

The Bitcoin "public" auction:


-  You needed at least $200,000 on deposit just to bid.
-  They won't tell us who won the auction.
-  They won't tell us what the wining bid(s) were.


I don't see what was so "public" about this Bitcoin auction.

$200k was prequalification normal (20%) for this type auctions, even for seized cars/trucks/gold
They will tell you who won once the secure the funds from winning bids (due by July 7th)
The will tell you what the winning bid was

Even if this takes a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) to do so, which I dont think it will

Cool, so this information will definitely be publically available!
USMS notice of the auction:
http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/
FAQ of the same (check items 10 and 11):
http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/bitcoins/faqs.pdf
408  Other / Off-topic / Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: July 01, 2014, 01:50:19 AM
Is not Google Satan incarnate?
It is everywhere, so shouldn't it rather be Satan discarnate?
409  Economy / Economics / Re: How profitable are exchanges? on: July 01, 2014, 12:53:12 AM
Why would citizen of emerging market will choose bitcoin vs their own currency?
Let me answer that in one word: Argentina.
Please stop that nonsense.  Bitcoin is not a viable hedge against inflation, not even in Argentina.  Pushing it on Argentinians as such is a scam, pure and simple.  Have people forgotten Neo & Bee already?  Angry
410  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 01, 2014, 12:43:34 AM
Again, where is 30,000 coming from? They had 48,013 BTC of bids..

So, they had 16 bids.. (48,000 for 30,000 bitcoin)

I guess what matters here is wether or not the 20M includes the obvious 18,000 that didnt win (0% chance for them to win, before results were out). I dont see why it WOULDNT include that.

So, $20,000,000/48,000 = $416.67
The syndicate got 186 small bids totalling 48,000 BTC.  As you say, it would be silly to submit all of them to the USMS, so SecondMarket must have picked the ones with largest bid price, totalling the 29'600 BTC, and assembled from them a set of bids for the 9+1 lots on auction. 

Is the 20 M$ figure real information?  From the comments following Alan Silbert's tweet, I understood that it was only his estimate, or at least he did not clearly admit that it was real.  Have there been any explicit leaks or claims by any bidders about the bid prices?
411  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 30, 2014, 07:41:06 PM
if the bids were well above 630$, shouldn't he reveal the values, to push the price up?
412  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] Moving Forward/Resolution Process on: June 30, 2014, 07:05:34 PM
You should read the context. Danny lost coins in weex which led to the bankruptcy of neobee.
Where did you get that idea? Have you checked Danny's curriculum in the UK?
413  Other / Off-topic / Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: June 30, 2014, 03:11:49 PM
Shouldn't you answer with A QUESTION and start a sentence
 with a capital letter?
I'm sorry, isn't the internet a free country?
I have to pay some 70$/month for it, you call that free?
414  Other / Off-topic / Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: June 30, 2014, 01:54:34 PM
Am I the only one here who does not know what "420" mean, other than it is related to drugs and is not a collection of 10 different answers to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything?
Do 420's only smoke one joint per day at 04:20 PM or AM because they think it's a socially acceptable moment to smoke and stay 'clean' the rest of the day?
Does this make sense at all?
Sense it does make, but the question is, was that reply sincere and truthful, of was @BTCat just pulling my leg?
415  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 30, 2014, 12:15:13 PM
Seems very unlikely that SecondMarket would enter a bid itself.  Can people see why that would be a big ethical problem?

Why? We all know second market wants/need tons of bitcoin and are in for the long run. We also know they are pretty smart investors and they know that buying 30000 bitcoins on an exchange would be problematic. For more than one reason.

1) their funds could be stolen (get goxxed)
2) their funds could be trapped at the exchange for months (withdrawal limit)
3) their bid would increase the price and start a rally (which means they'll have to pay much more)

It's not unethical, it's smart
The list was already admitted to be false, but supposing it were real..

If those three lots supposedly bought by SecondMarket were the syndicate bids, no problem.

If SecondMarket placed bids of their own (as you assumed), there would be a problem.  They knew the syndicate bids, and those bids were more than enough to cover all the lots.  Therefore, bidding below them would be stupid, bidding above them would betray the trust that the syndicate participants deposited on them.  Ditto if they entered the syndicate with bids of their own.

Thus, we should conclude that SecondMarket did not bid, except as representatives of the syndicate.  Which means that their expected fee revenue from the syndicate members was greater than their expected profit from bidding at the auction.

As for them needing coins in the long run, that is not how their fund is supposed to work.  They should buy only when people buy shares of their fund.  Ostensibly they make money from fees, whatever happens to the BTC price.  They could get extra profit by buying coins in advance if they expected the price to rise, but that would put the fund in a risky negative-cash position.  On the other hand they will never find it hard to buy the coins they need at near market price, since OTC price will not be far from it. 
416  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 30, 2014, 08:31:29 AM
hot off the price heres a list of the prices for each block so far.

1 - Pantera - $900
2 - SecondMarket - $750
3 - SecondMarket - $700
4 - DRW Trading Group - $700
5 - Coinbase - $685
6 - Rangeley Capital - $660
7 - SecondMarket - $651
8 - Coinbase - $640
9 - Matrix Capital Management - $601
Block 10 - Yelp - $626
Is this list real?

Seems very unlikely that SecondMarket would enter a bid itself.  Can people see why that would be a big ethical problem?
417  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 30, 2014, 08:28:32 AM
ya sorry its 48,013 coin bid. so if what he is saying is the amount of btc bid on the amount for sale. 48013 / 30000 = 1.6 btc per 1 btc sold by the government. someone do the math i can't, how much of an increase by percent ?

Total coin bid only 48k, I was expecting much more, Its look some manipulation going there too that is why only 1.6 coin bid for every coin.
Those numbers are only for the "sub-auction" (syndicate, bidding pool) that SecondMarket organized to let smaller fish bid at the USMS auction.  People who did not have enough money to bid for a whole 3'000 BTC lot could submit a bid to the SM syndicate (with minimum 25'000 USD, it has been claimed), who merged the highest bids and submited bids to the USMS.  No one knows how many bids and bidders there were at the USMS auction itself.

418  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 30, 2014, 08:19:21 AM
ya sorry its 48,013 coin bid. so if what he is saying is the amount of btc bid on the amount for sale. 48013 / 30000 = 1.6 btc per 1 btc sold by the government. someone do the math i can't, how much of an increase by percent ?
As others explained, the syndicate must have selected the highest among those 186 bids, adding up to 29'600 BTC; and submitted bids to the USMS for the 10 lots, with suitable prices based on the input bids.  I can't see what the above ratio would mean.
419  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: June 30, 2014, 08:08:21 AM
so if what Silbert is saying is right each coin sold for around =  $945 USD
Beware, the dollar amounts may have been added by CoinDesk based on the current price. Barry's tweet gave only the num of bidders, num of bids, and the total BTC.
420  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin will plummet to $10 by first half of 2014 on: June 30, 2014, 07:59:07 AM
When exactly did that prof make his prediction?
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