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1541  Economy / Speculation / Re: FAKE news: "3 billion HKD lost" in Mycoin.hk bitcoin exchange runoff on: February 09, 2015, 04:04:14 PM
It is not clear whether mycoin.hk also included an exchange, there are conflicting reports on that.  If they did have an exchange, it was a small one.  The big scam was their cloud mining operation, which apparently was just a ponzi scheme and had no real bitcoins and no real mining.

Nevertheless, the latest small drop in price (from 1380 CNY to 1350 in a few minutes, with a recovery to 1360) happened just after 8pm in China local time.  It may have been a reaction to the news showing on TV, perhaps.
1542  Economy / Speculation / Re: FAKE news: "3 billion HKD lost" in Mycoin.hk bitcoin exchange runoff on: February 09, 2015, 03:11:27 PM
3 billion HKD that means 3,000 clients who had invested HK$1m ($12,890) each, 130,000 dollars each, just for investment? Well, I don't think we Chinese are so wealthy like that.

This could be a real new, but the number or the calculation method of that number might be wrong, I guess.

1 million HKD is 128'000 USD not 12'890 USD.

Their cloud mining contracts were 400'000 HKD each, and there are testimonials of people buying 8 contracts; so an average of 2.5 contracts per client seems reasonable.

The only questionable number is 3000 clients; it may be inflated, but it is not too high for an MLM scheme in a place like Hong Kong.

EDIT: Hong Kong has 7 million inhabitants and a median income of over 20'000 HKD/month.
1543  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Original November 2008 version of the Bitcoin paper on: February 09, 2015, 03:00:40 PM
So DST started Nov 2, 2008 but it's odd that the TZ moved in the wrong direction, if I am reading this right.

Original : /CreationDate(D:20081003134958-07'00')>>
2009 revision : /CreationDate(D:20090324113315-06'00')>>

03 Oct 2008 is -7
24 Mar 2009 is -6

I don't know whether it is relevant, but daylight savings changes in the Southern Hemisphere (early April and early October in Australia, for example) are opposite to those in the Northern Hemisphere.
Great point. Here is a map of DST around the world, blue is where it is used : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time#mediaviewer/File:DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png

And a map of timezones: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/World_Time_Zones_Map.png

So it doesn't look like DST is used in any country in the -6 or -7 TZ below the equator. (There are no countries south of the equator in -6 or -7.)

Well, then he must have changed timezones between the two versions.  Most likely he was in the US, I would say.

EDIT: or he was logged into computers located in different timezones.
1544  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 12:36:10 PM
Uh-oh:

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1708308/mycoin-director-quit-one-month-bitcoin-platform-changed-trading-rules

Quote
The sole director of the company which out-of-pocket MyCoin clients say controls the bitcoin trading platform resigned one month before it was said to have changed trading rules to stop investors cashing in all their bitcoins.

Companies Registry records show William Dennis Atwood as the only director of Rich Might Investment Ltd – to which many MyCoin clients made out cheques as payment to MyCoin – resigned on November 10 last year.

Atwood also transferred all of the shares he held on the same day to a British Virgin Islands-based company called Fascinating Horizon Overseas Ltd, the records show.

The clients claim Atwood was chief executive of Kryptogroup which controls, among other entities, MyCoin and a bitcoin mining centre called Kryptomine Cloudhashing.

An imperialist pig stealing from Chinese workers?  @NotLambChop, you must have the right poster for that...
1545  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 12:26:22 PM
so the scam was..
give me money and i will mine bitcoin for you...
ran off with money...
bitcoin never got mined...
-> there will be no dump

Correct that far.  However, an academic (ahem!) in Hong Kong called for tighter regulations on bitcoin.  That by itself does not mean anything, but it is noteworthy that the news arrticle closed with his opinion.  There may be repercussions on exchanges.

And then we have the current dump.  Just a coincidence, or triggered by the mycoin.hk news?
1546  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 12:10:22 PM
It is 8pm in China now.  The mycoin.hk story playing on TV, perhaps?
1547  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 11:44:52 AM
No way that shit I never heard off had 385 million of user funds.

I never heard of that exchange and now suddenly somebody is trying to make people think it had 3000 investors with $12k? I call bullshit.

(...) estimate is based on the company's own earlier claims that it served 3,000 clients who had invested HK$1m ($12,890) each.

It was a minor exchange too, but the big scam was not in the exchange, it was a cloud mining ponzi.

BTW, 1 million HKD is 128'900 USD not 12'890 USD.  That "万" thing does seem to confuse people there...
1548  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 11:40:02 AM
3000 and only 30 want to go to court?
I understood that 30 victims contacted a local Councillor because they had no proof of investment and thought that the police would not take up their case.  The Councillor directed them to the police, let's see what comes of it.
1549  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 11:18:16 AM
MyCoin.hk is the new Hong Kong mining ponzi scam, that collapsed last December and broke the news yesterday; estimates (based on mycoin.hk statements) are still 3 billion HKD = 385 million USD.
Estimates that have been demonstrated to likely be false

Have they?  The mining contracts were ~52'000 USD minimum, so the uncertainty is only in the number of contracts that they managed to sell.  The "3000" figure may be inflated, but it is not too high for an MLM scheme
1550  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 11:08:07 AM
Correction: the "4.1 billion USD" for the GBL scam seems to be a newspaper error.  Other sources say "4.1 million",  with is of course much more plausible.
is this for the exchange in HK that apparently stole funds and goxxed users ?
It was not an exchange. It was a good ol Ponzi scheme using a Bitcoin facade to lure suckers in.

Sorry for the confusion...

MyCoin.hk is the new Hong Kong mining ponzi scam, that collapsed last December and broke the news yesterday; estimates (based on mycoin.hk statements) are still 3 billion HKD = 385 million USD.

GLB was a Hong Kong exchange that closed and stole all client funds in November 2013.  One newspaper yesterday said that the loss was 4.1 billion USD, but it was actually 4.1 million, it seems.
1551  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 10:40:06 AM
Quote
before closing for good, mycoin.hk had set the price of bitcoin to ~1.5 USD for the purpose of calculating client payouts.  Cheesy
Doesn't show on the charts.
Well, that is what the news article claimed.
1552  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 10:38:39 AM
Correction: the "4.1 billion USD" for the GBL scam seems to be a newspaper error.  Other sources say "4.1 million",  with is of course much more plausible.
1553  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Original November 2008 version of the Bitcoin paper on: February 09, 2015, 10:36:00 AM
So DST started Nov 2, 2008 but it's odd that the TZ moved in the wrong direction, if I am reading this right.

Original : /CreationDate(D:20081003134958-07'00')>>
2009 revision : /CreationDate(D:20090324113315-06'00')>>

03 Oct 2008 is -7
24 Mar 2009 is -6

I don't know whether it is relevant, but daylight savings changes in the Southern Hemisphere (early April and early October in Australia, for example) are opposite to those in the Northern Hemisphere.
1554  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 10:04:37 AM
Another news report on the mycoin.hk mining ponzi below[...]
Another random news post:  BitXChange.ro, [...]
Both without influence on the price.

Well, before closing for good, mycoin.hk had set the price of bitcoin to ~1.5 USD for the purpose of calculating client payouts.  Cheesy

The BitXChange.ro case highlights another kind of risk of the exchanges.  While their servers may be replicated and protected against external hackers, they may still have a single programmer who could do similar damage.  Indeed, like MtGOX and several other examples, their software team often consists of only one programmer.  Blockchain.info seems to be another example, given that they uploaded the buggy RNG without any internal review of the code.
1555  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 09:37:00 AM
Another random news post:  BitXChange.ro, a Bitcoin exchange in Romania, fired their chief programmer last October, and he has been holding their servers and user account hostage since then.  Exchange owners advised clients to withdraw everything, and claims to have been processing all withdrawals by hand since then.

https://www.btcxchange.ro/news
1556  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 09:23:52 AM
Another news report on the mycoin.hk mining ponzi below, only a few more details:
https://www.techinasia.com/bitcoin-pyramid-scheme-hong-kong-387m-investors-money/

I did not know the amount of the GBL scam:
Quote
The broader points of the sceme look very similar to GBL, a bitcoin exchange also based in Hong Kong that went dark in November 2013 with about US$4.1 billion of investors’ money.

I suppose that the figure is computed from BTC at the Mv/2013 price?  Anyway that would make GBL the largest bitcoin-related scam of all time.

I recall reading, some time later, that the GBL owners had been caught by the Chinese poliice, somewhere in the Mainland.  That also makes GBL one of the few (only two?) bitcoin scams whose authors were caught and tried.
1557  Other / Off-topic / Re: Re: Answer the question above with a question. on: February 09, 2015, 09:11:07 AM
Was the blank left behind, or could we just not see him?
Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App
Who the blank changed the subject?
Posted From Blanksy App
Why the blank changed the subject ?
Will this page only consist of blank posts?
Why dont you use a plank then?
Did you mean to say plankton?
Why is plankton so different from a ton of planks?
1558  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 02:26:01 AM
The mycoin.hk thing will likely have little effect on the market because, as I understand it,  it's an obvious fiat ponzi scheme that merely used bitcoin as part of the ruse. Ponzis are already illegal so no further legislation needed.

I generally agree, except that there are claims that mycoin.hk operated also an exchange that scammed their clients too.  So there may be some consequences for other exchanges.
1559  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 02:14:24 AM
PS. It is 10:00 am now in China.  The mycoin.hk news was on some Hong Kong newspapers, but may not have been picked up by Mainland newspapers yet; I don't know.  Some Mainland Chinese may get the news through the internet, but more may get them from TV this evening, or from newspapers tomorrow.  Let's see.
1560  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 09, 2015, 01:37:41 AM
I don't think that there will be an immediate reaction to the mycoin.hk debacle (but I may be wrong, of course).

People have blamed bad press after the MtGOX collapse for the general price decline since Feb/2014.  I don't think MtGOX had that much influence, not even when it was fresh news (which is no longer the case). The only clear effects of MtGOX on price were a couple of sudden drops, notably on 2014-02-07 and 02-10, when Mark hinted/stated that there was a "bug in bitcoin".  But those drops were soon undone when the claims were dismissed.  As I said before, I believe that the general deciine since Feb/2014 is mostly due to the Chinese speculators getting disenchanted with bitcoin and taking their remaining money out of the market.

The mycoin.hk debacle may however convince the Chinese government to impose even stricter regulations about bitcoin trading; and those would surely have a large impact on the price (like the ones in March/April 2014).
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